Page 30 of 52 FirstFirst ... 20282930313240 ... LastLast
Results 581 to 600 of 1025
  1. #581
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by centerpt1 View Post
    On the other hand.......Russia is hosting the Games. They should be a gracious host and assure the well being of athletes.,coaches.,officials and spectators. This is like saying no redheads will be allowed at the games. Open season to attack redheaded people its the law so it must be obeyed. So the top speed skater is a redheaded...Bah.. not allowed. Is that the Olympic ideal?
    You have great imaginations. Did they say no redheads will be allowed at the games? I don't think they said that. They said that no redheaded public activities, where such activities could reach minors, are allowed. Is it attack to redheaded people? No. Is it unfair to redheaded people? Yes.
    Last edited by Eyre; 07-31-2013 at 06:05 AM.

  2. #582

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,801
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    35599
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    You have great imaginations. Did they say no redheads will be allowed at the games? I don't think they said that. They said that no redheaded public activities, where such activities could reach minors, are allowed. Is it attack to redheaded people? No. Is it unfair to redheaded people? Yes.
    It's pretty much an attack.

    Living in this hypothetical, how can redheaded people conduct their business and lives away from the public? Also, they can't always control the environment they are in to ensure it will never reach minors. Also, wouldn't the games be a public activity? Wouldn't minors be there?

    I guess what redheads can do is wear headgear covering all of their hair, and not have facial hair...much like how this law is basically forcing gay people to stay closeted in the public sphere. Or they can dye their hair to hide their red hair...much like a gay man or lesbian woman would try to pass off as straight. The only difference is that the redheaded man is forced to not have a beard while a gay man or lesbian woman will have to try to get one.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 07-31-2013 at 06:41 AM.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  3. #583
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    It's pretty much an attack.

    Living in this hypothetical, how can redheaded people conduct their business and lives away from the public? Also, they can't always control the environment they are in to ensure it will never reach minors. Also, wouldn't the games be a public activity? Wouldn't minors be there?

    I guess what redheads can do is wear headgear covering all of their hair, and not have facial hair...much like how this law is basically forcing gay people to stay closeted in the public sphere. Or they can dye their hair to hide their red hair...much like a gay man or lesbian woman would try to pass off as straight. The only difference is that the redheaded man is forced to not have a beard while a gay man or lesbian woman will have to try to get one.
    Are you playing dumb, or are you really confused about it?

  4. #584

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,801
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    35599
    Well, if a redheaded person were to attend the Olympic games in some capacity, he or she would be doing a public activity right? By virtue of having his red hair seen by the public, that would qualify as a public activity.

    As for the rest of my points...
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  5. #585
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,967
    vCash
    1670
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Well, if a redheaded person were to attend the Olympic games in some capacity, he or she would be doing a public activity right? By virtue of having his red hair seen by the public, that would qualify as a public activity.

    As for the rest of my points...
    What are you on, its must be something really strong ?

  6. #586

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,801
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    35599
    Quote Originally Posted by Domshabfan View Post
    What are you on, its must be something really strong ?
    Well, if you read the earlier posts, I wasn't the one who came up with the redhead analogy, nor was I the first one to take it further. See centerpt1 and Eyre's posts before mine. Of course, that wasn't the real point with your response to me, was it?
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  7. #587
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Age
    30
    Posts
    4,967
    vCash
    1670
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by BittyBug View Post
    Are you serious? People criticize political leaders every day and it has absolutely no further implication on a country's people. I took the "Putinstan" moniker to represent Putin's well-established semi-autocratic authority.
    Yes, you are allowed to criticise political leader, nothing wrong with that. I have strong objection to the person using ''Putinstan'', the reason being that some people thought it being funny was because of the deep prejudice against all the istan (all most all of them being predominantly Muslim).

    Especially on a topic that is raising a question about inequality, such kind of language is not acceptable (not that I am saying it is acceptable anywhere else). However, such usage here makes you point even more mute...

  8. #588
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Well, if a redheaded person were to attend the Olympic games in some capacity, he or she would be doing a public activity right? By virtue of having his red hair seen by the public, that would qualify as a public activity.

    As for the rest of my points...
    Thanks for the entertainment!

  9. #589

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,801
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    35599
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    Thanks for the entertainment!
    Ok then, clarify what you meant by public activity.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  10. #590
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    321
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Ok then, clarify what you meant by public activity.
    It's not what I meant. It's what the law meant. Read post #390 in this thread by yaya124:

    Promotion of non-traditional sexual relations among minors, expressed in the dissemination of information aimed at developing non-traditional sexual juvenile facilities, attractiveness of non-traditional sexual relations, a distorted picture of the social equivalence of traditional and non-traditional sexual relations, or the imposition of information on non-traditional sexual relationships, causing interest in such relationships

  11. #591

    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    4,717
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    It's not what I meant. It's what the law meant. Read post #390 in this thread by yaya124:
    Promotion of non-traditional sexual relations among minors, expressed in the dissemination of information aimed at developing non-traditional sexual juvenile facilities, attractiveness of non-traditional sexual relations, a distorted picture of the social equivalence of traditional and non-traditional sexual relations, or the imposition of information on non-traditional sexual relationships, causing interest in such relationships
    Oh, I can think of many kinds of straight sex that would fit this vague definition, but since this is a public part of FSU I'll leave it at that. Anyway, I guess that's not what they mean? If a kid is gay, they'll have "interest in such relationships" anyway. If they're straight, all that this sort of "propaganda" might do is get them to accept rather than bully their LGBTQ peers.

    The law is indefensible. Whether a boycott is warranted in response is certainly a matter for debate, however. Personally I'm against an Olympic boycott and for dealing with the situation in more effective ways.

  12. #592

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,801
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    35599
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    It's not what I meant. It's what the law meant. Read post #390 in this thread by yaya124:
    And my point was to substitute redhaired people with "non-traditional sexual relations" as you and centerpt1 did previously. Change the language of the law that you quoted and see how it works out.
    "Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." - Ambrose Bierce

  13. #593

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,175
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    32148
    Quote Originally Posted by allezfred View Post
    Whatever you think about the law that is frankly a ridiculous statement to make. I'm guessing you've never been to an Olympics because if you had you would know that they are enveloped in a huge security bubble. The suggestion that there will be an orgy of violence in Sochi is laughable.

    Are you trying to insult Russians or gay people or both?

    As a gay man, I am disgusted by this Russian law, but I'm also disgusted by so many people using it to make xenophobic statements about Russian people.
    I could not agree more.

  14. #594
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,592
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    Whether or not nothing would happen will depends on both sides, not just the Russian authorities and their people. I'm sure the Russian authorities will do their best to protect the athletes and the visitors. There are many stupid laws in US. But once they become a law, it is expected everyone to follow the rules. This is a Russian law. Only the Russians could change it, not you. As a foreigner, you are expected to avoid deliberate confrontations with their laws no matter how you feel about them. If you cannot do that, then don't go there. Whether you like it or not, this is the truth.
    I'm definitely conflicted about that (and point that ultimately, it won't affect me because I wasn't going to go to Sochi in any capacity anyway; this law certainly wouldn't encourage me to change my mind, but it's not like I'd be going in it's absence). But I'd argue that by creating a law that criminalizes victims of hatred and ignorance, one creates an environment where hatred and ignorance is allowed to fester - especially when many attempt to root this hatred and ignorance in culture as if culture is an immutable force.

  15. #595

    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Aquisgranum
    Age
    29
    Posts
    1,188
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    462
    I discovered that old age really mellowed my character, especially concerning politics. I no longer feel the need to have a clear-cut opition about everything and everyone - boycott; not boycott - the beginning of a new totalitarian regime in Russia; or just a small step back, that will turn out to be insignificant in the big scheme of things - I am simply not sure about it. And that's okay.
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelskates View Post
    So it would be a "I came to this country but I don't intend to obey the laws I don't like?" Where does that end?

    I have no idea if they would arrest every last athlete at the opening ceremony. I don't agree with the law here, but Russia has the right to make their own laws. Every athlete could not only be arrested, but also disciplined by their own Olympics committee, which makes athletes sign an agreement stating they will obey the laws of the country etc. Athletes on sponsorship deals could also lose them. If someone isn't willing to obey the law, I would rather them boycott, but I don't think a boycott would make any difference to the law. If they choose to go and break the law, then they won't get my sympathy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Eyre View Post
    Whether or not nothing would happen will depends on both sides, not just the Russian authorities and their people. I'm sure the Russian authorities will do their best to protect the athletes and the visitors. There are many stupid laws in US. But once they become a law, it is expected everyone to follow the rules. This is a Russian law. Only the Russians could change it, not you. As a foreigner, you are expected to avoid deliberate confrontations with their laws no matter how you feel about them. If you cannot do that, then don't go there. Whether you like it or not, this is the truth.
    If people choose to go and break the law, they won't get your sympathy. What if people choose to stay in countries and deliberately break the laws of that country - do those get your sympathy? It's technically the same situation. Do these people get your sympathy?

    What about people who go somewhere to draw attention to injustice, abuse etc. - are they worthy of sympathy if something happens to them?

    What if a gay couple went to Russia, they fully wanted to comply with the current laws - but one of them gets hurt, which leads to a public display of affection? Stupid idiots - why did they go in the first place? But maybe it was a business trip, they are also business partners and they needed to secure an important order? Stupid idiots - they should have only done business with gay-friendly countries then?

    But once they become a law, it is expected everyone to follow the rules.
    Since when are people suddenly so "law-abiding"? So civil disobedience is dead? These were once the laws of my country. Laws passed by a government, that was more or less officially and legally elected by my people. My faith in laws is shaky at best. It's also not always easy and straightforward to follow the law, everytime I do my taxes I am afraid that I did it wrong and just became a criminal.

    I am not saying Russia is turning into a totalitarian state, Merlin knows, there are tons of brainless useless laws all over the world, in all countries. There are human right breaches in a every country. The news about Russian government's LGBT-campaign, they caused a mild feeling of annoyance and disappointment in myself.

    But people who try to downplay the effects of those laws, whose arrogance turns victims of those laws into idiots, who should have known better - these people are really dangerous. I find the lack of compassion, the sheer arrogance and blind belief in the inviolability of laws, that is on display in some of the posts here, to be truly appalling.

  16. #596

    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Oz
    Posts
    2,683
    vCash
    400
    Rep Power
    8867
    This thread is getting more and more complicated. Debates on whether boycotts are justified and the best way to achieve its mean to arrogance and lack of compassion if one believes in the sanctity of a law.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gil
    But people who try to downplay the effects of those laws, whose arrogance turns victims of those laws into idiots, who should have known better - these people are really dangerous. I find the lack of compassion, the sheer arrogance and blind belief in the inviolability of laws, that is on display in some of the posts here, to be truly appalling.
    I don't think Angelskates and Eyre are downplaying the discriminatory law against LGBT people in Russia at all. What they are disagreeing, as far as I gather, is whether advocates against the discriminatory law should show their defiance by deliberately breaking the law in Russia. There are also debates on the safety of LGBT athletes going to Sochi within the confines of the Sochi village and outside the village.

    I find it baffling that you call Angelskates and Eyre dangerous and arrogant just because they think that outsiders should not deliberately enter Russia to break the law in order to show their defiance. Would you mind if some people who disagree with the laws in your country deliberately break the law? In some countries, men and women are forbidden to be in close proximity including holding hands. Personally I think the law is ridiculous in this era and having being brought up in a more open society. Should we enter the country to defy the law by holding hands and wearing skimpy clothes? Should we be pitied if we are thrown into jail in that country? Should our countries send troops into these countries to save us? I am not sure whether thumping our noses against the laws we disagree in other countries serves to heighten our own sense righteousness better or for the benefit of those who are most affected by the law. For every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. Before we act, it may be prudent to determine the likely reaction.

    If we truly care for a cause, there are many venues to channel our energies towards the cause. If ignorance and fear is the cause of such a discriminatory law, perhaps educating the wider public in that country may create more acceptance and understanding. Or perhaps a call from one President to another President may be more effective especially if the law is applied in an authoritarian society/culture.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  17. #597
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    83
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    In the comments section of this article, one writer suggests holding Pride events during the Winter Olympics, to show solidarity and raise awareness of what is happening in Russia. One of the saner suggestions I've seen (along with boycotting Russian products).

    I suppose it's too much to hope that a skater or duo would skate to Over the Rainbow or True Colors at the Olympic gala (YMCA being right out of the question, of course).

  18. #598
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Does it matter?
    Posts
    1,164
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by spikydurian View Post
    If we truly care for a cause, there are many venues to channel our energies towards the cause. If ignorance and fear is the cause of such a discriminatory law, perhaps educating the wider public in that country may create more acceptance and understanding. Or perhaps a call from one President to another President may be more effective especially if the law is applied in an authoritarian society/culture.
    You mean one President calling another President and trying to educate him? Wouldn't that imply that the other President is driven by ignorance and fear? If Russia is a democratic country that has indeed made lots of progress along the democratic path as they say, I have to wonder how a President who is driven by ignorance and fear can run a democratic country in the 21st century and educate the nation himself in the spirit of human rights and democratic values.

    What was the reaction of the Russian civil society to this new law? Did they have discussions in the media? Was the Russian gay community invited to public debates to express their viewpoint on the matter, anyone know?

  19. #599

    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,163
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    4024

    Sochi Olympics will test gay rights

    There is currently a petition on the We the People website which calls for two of the creators of the law in Russia to be banned from entering the USA. The petitition against entry for Elena Mizulina and Vitaly Milonov on the charge of human rights violations is near 5,000 signatures. The Russian Gay community is organizing Sochi Pride, a celebration of gay pride to be held during the games, so far Johnny Weir has agreed to be a part., there is also a protest planned for tomorrow at the Russian consulate.

  20. #600

    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    29,546
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    41455
    COMMENTARY: Olympians speak out
    Gay athletes, allies plan to make statement with words and competition
    Updated: July 30, 2013, 4:42 PM ET
    By Johnette Howard | ESPN.com

    http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_/...ay-laws-russia (includes a 5-minute video segment "The Word: How Will Russia's Anti-Gay Policies Affect Sports?
    Jane McManus and Kate Fagan join Prim Siripipat to discuss how Russia's anti-gay policies might affect the 2014 Winter Olympics.")
    Excerpt from article:
    Now the 28-year-old [NZL short-track speedskater Blake] Skjellerup is back in training for the 2014 Sochi Winter Olympics in February, and he is stepping out even further. He is the only known out Winter Games athlete who has joined an effort by LGBT rights advocates who are calling for Russia to repeal anti-LGBT legislation ahead of the Games but who are staunchly opposed to the escalating demands for a boycott if Russia doesn't comply.

    Skjellerup's reasons for wanting the world to show up as planned in Sochi are based on his personal experience.
    ...
    Skjellerup says his life has reflected the same reality. Which is why he is arguing that a boycott of Sochi -- or, in essence, willfully allowing himself to be made invisible again because of homophobia -- is exactly the wrong thing to do.

    "I am against a boycott because there is no way I am going to change, or not be who I am, or go back into closet because of my sexuality," Skjellerup said in a phone interview over the weekend from Calgary, Alberta, where he now trains.

    "I think it would definitely be more powerful for athletes to attend Sochi than stay away, because I do think having individuals coming out is one of the most important pieces to bring about change, and to bring about understanding about LGBT rights, and to make people see us and realize, 'This person is just a normal person doing what they love and what they've done their entire life. They have a complete right to be in Sochi and to be welcome competing.'"
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

Page 30 of 52 FirstFirst ... 20282930313240 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •