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  1. #41

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    In the photo gallery that is running with the article (below the Johnny Weir press conference photo)--I didn't realize Gracie Gold was out. Seems a bit strange to use an underage athlete, but I guess if they are ok with it...

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Willowway View Post
    The one thing that can be done within the current structure and environment - talk about it and keeping bringing it up. The games will go on and the individual athletes (almost all of whom I respect and support) will thrill us. But use the spotlight, the exceptional level of social media discussion, etc. to keep the topic in view. Don't let it go, don't let it slide - support human rights and use opportunities, like Sochi, to highlight the abuses. That's one thing each person can do regardless of where they are located - social media gives us more "power" than we have ever had as individuals. I can't boycott anything because I wasn't going there in the first place. But I can actively support human rights efforts in Russia and in my own country (USA) and anywhere they occur. Sometimes we have to work with what we can't control - but we can make a difference. I like the message that figure skating fans CARE, really care about human rights - I'll work with that.
    I agree. I think all the gay athletes, spectators and visitors should throw a daily pride parade while they are there. I doubt the Russian authorities would really do their usual when the world media is watching.
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  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    It's great that he loves Russia, but the word patriot is a bit weird to use
    I have heard about the extreme homophobia in Russia. What's a bit strange is I believe one of their top pop stars is widely believed to be gay.

    There's also been controversy for years over the rampant hate crimes by neo-nazi skinhead groups there, specifically targeting Asian students
    Yeah really. I knew he was a Russophile but I didn't know Johnny had switched his allegiance to Russia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Capella View Post
    In the photo gallery that is running with the article (below the Johnny Weir press conference photo)--I didn't realize Gracie Gold was out. Seems a bit strange to use an underage athlete, but I guess if they are ok with it...
    I'm thinking you are being sarcastic, but that photostream is unrelated to the article. Max Aaron might also be surprised by his outing...

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    What are you talking about?

    In 1936 whilst Hitler has already started to raise some eyebrows worldwide, nobody could predict what would happen three years later.

    And yes, Olympics were held in Soviet Block countries before. Back at that time, gay people were discriminated against in the Western countries as much as they were in the Soviet Block ones, so that's not a valid point.

    It's not about 'trouble in the Olympic village.'

    It's about equality, inclusiveness and human rights.

    Gay athletes have it hard enough as it is.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I agree with (almost) everything you have said.

    I just didn't understand the comparison of the current situation to 1936 or Olympics being held in Soviet block countries.

    We are in 2013 now and it's not acceptable to allow a country holding the Olympics to discriminate against gay people (or anybody else).

    P.S. In the Western countries, it wasn't just a case of 'not living openly'. Being harassed/beaten by the police was commonplace. Which is why Stonewall eventually happened, thank god.
    Btw it's Soviet bloc not 'block'.

    Agreed such government sanctioned behavior against ANY human beings should not be acceptable in 2013.
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    I don't like the North-American hypocricy... What did they do with the Native American people? That was the biggest genocide in history.
    Perhaps you missed the history lessons where Columbus landed in the Caribean, not on the North American continent, and the genocides wrought by Spanish and Portuguese conquerors throughout the Caribbean, what became the southeastern US, Mexico, Central and South America beginning in the late 15th century, some on advanced civilizations?

    The New World has lots of finger-pointing opportunities.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

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    Quote Originally Posted by love_skate2011 View Post
    right. reminds me of Beijing, the World does not revolve around western countries, democracy is a facade and its definition differs from culture to country.
    I for one leave it to their own people ( majority of Russians are still unwelcome of gays )
    do not care how this human rights are condemned, I can easily name gross human violations in any country.

    the world is filled with hypocrisy.
    Just wanted to quote the bold. I know right? LOL.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    Yeah really. I knew he was a Russophile but I didn't know Johnny had switched his allegiance to Russia.
    He refers to Russia as "their" country, so clearly not. Patriot may not have been exactly the word to use, but of course, no nitpicking will go unpicked!
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Perhaps you missed the history lessons where Columbus landed in the Caribean, not on the North American continent, and the genocides wrought by Spanish and Portuguese conquerors throughout the Caribbean, what became the southeastern US, Mexico, Central and South America beginning in the late 15th century, some on advanced civilizations?

    The New World has lots of finger-pointing opportunities.
    Maybe. But what happened with the lots of native people, who lived across the continent?

  10. #50
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    In december 2012.

    http://en.ria.ru/russia/20121220/178294940.html

    Russian public figures, including Plushenko and his friends (Dima Bilan, Philipp Kirkorov, Nikolai Baskov), signed a petition to the president and the prime minister of Russia to ban St.Petersburg's city council member Vitaly Milonov, the author of the infamous law banning gay propaganda and other radical laws.

  11. #51
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    I read this quote from Johnny "My advice would be: Watch what you do when you leave the Village, don't be aggressive, don't wear a big rainbow flag fur coat. If you don't call attention to yourself, attention won't come to you" and then I thought of some of his outfits.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?q=Johnn...74&tx=46&ty=93

    http://www.google.com/imgres?q=Johnn...63&tx=73&ty=71

    http://www.google.com/imgres?q=Johnn...64,s:100,i:196
    I think I will have a snack and take a nap before I eat and go to sleep.

  12. #52
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    No rainbow flag fur coats there

    I also liked the quote that he won't be having sex on the Metro. Good to know, Johnny.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by iarispiralllyof View Post
    It's great that he loves Russia, but the word patriot is a bit weird to use
    Definition of "patriot"

    pa·tri·ot [pey-tree-uht, -ot or, esp. British, pa-tree-uht] Show IPA
    noun
    1. a person who loves, supports, and defends his or her country and its interests with devotion.
    2. a person who regards himself or herself as a defender, especially of individual rights, against presumed interference by the federal government.
    Even given that second definition, AFAIK the only country with respect to which he could be a patriot is the United States. Either he misused the word, or he was misquoted. Having seen how I myself have been misquoted in the press, I would give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he does actually know what the word "patriot" means.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Maybe. But what happened with the lots of native people, who lived across the continent?
    Similar things that happened with lots of native peoples who lived across the South/Central American continent, the Caribbean, Mexico, etc. and earlier: death, enslavement, the destruction of cultures, maginalization and impoverishment of Native peoples that continues to this day. The impetus was different, but the results similar.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 02-07-2013 at 08:39 PM.
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  15. #55
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    It's also lazy to just finger point at low point(s) of a country's history as a way to defend another country's gross violation of fundamental human dignity.

    Every nation on this planet is guilty of some sort of atrocity in their past. What needs to be looked at is how that country is currently handling past wrongs (whether it be recognizing those wrongs, making institutional changes to make sure it does not happen again, offering reparations, etc.) to see if there has been any growth on that front.

    No country is perfect and hypocrisy is always going to happen. It's in human beings' nature to be hypocritical. However, people do what they can with the knowledge given and what the consensus allows them to get away with. There are things I believe my country, the U.S., is doing that are gross violations of human rights and I don't mind people brining them up any time the U.S. hosts something because these issues need to be raised. However, we are fooling ourselves if we think the IOC really cares about that. Outside of concentration camps or child labor or self-identifying absolute dictatorships, the IOC is willing to look past a lot...even now.

    That said, no amount of Western nation hypocrisy is going to change the fact that the Olympics are in Russia and Russia is CURRENTLY guilty of gay rights violations and atrocities. Whether you agree with Russia or not is a different issue, but you can't deny that their treatment of LGBTQ individuals is out-of-step with what is considered modernized nations.
    Last edited by VIETgrlTerifa; 02-07-2013 at 10:20 PM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Similar things that happened with lots of native peoples who lived across the South/Central American continent, the Caribbean, Mexico, etc. and earlier: death, enslavement, the destruction of cultures, maginalization and impoverishment of Native peoples that continues to this day. The impetus was different, but the results similar.
    I have some information about North-American history, but you know so much better, of course. So you can not prove me that the white settlers not persecuted the native people. Need to face the truth. I know Osceola's name, and his story, etc.

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    Of course white settlers persecuted Native Americans. That is a very well known, and very sad part of our history. Something that happened in the past does not justify something happening right now. Most Americans are ashamed of that part of our history, but we do not try to hide it. The government has made public apology to descendants, and in some cases reprirations have been paid.

    There are things going on now that many Americans consider to be human rights abuses, we are not a perfect country. In fact this week a new story came out that has angered people- killing citizens thought to be terrorists without giving them a trial. It is a huge deal.

    The fact that we still have issues doesn excuse inhumane actions by other countries either, everyone needs to clean up and treat people equally. (And Russia/Soviet Unioon has quite a bit of genocide in it's history, so I'm not sure what the purpose of pointing fingers here is.)

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    Something that happened in the past does not justify something happening right now. Most Americans are ashamed of that part of our history, but we do not try to hide it. The government has made public apology to descendants, and in some cases reprirations have been paid.

    There are things going on now that many Americans consider to be human rights abuses, we are not a perfect country. That doesn't excuse inhumane actions by other countries either. (And Russia/Soviet Unioon has quite a bit of genocide in it's history, so I'm not sure what the purpose of pointing fingers here is.)
    I know about the apology. But they live in closed poor territories even today. And I hate every genocide in history!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    You know, i have some information about North-American history, but you know so much better, of course. So you can not prove me that the white settlers not persecuted the native people. Need to face the truth. I know Osceola's name, and his story, etc.
    I don't think anyone here absolved the US (which is not all of North America - I don't blame the Canadians for what we did) of any responsibility for its wrongs, then or now, in the human rights area. That doesn't change, not one bit, Russia's responsiblity to human rights regarding the LGBT community.

    If we want to 'play' history, we had our "the trail of tears" (about which every American child learns and should learn) and you had gulags. But that's not the point. Russia has an upcoming Olympics and its treatment of the LGBT community could be in the spotlight, maybe should be in the spotlight. Perhaps scrutiny will prompt change - it often does.
    Last edited by Willowway; 02-07-2013 at 09:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Willowway View Post
    (which is not North America - I don't blame the Canadians for what we did)
    They don't need to be blamed for what we did- Canada did quite a bit of its own, IIRC. And the first persecution of the Native Americans was done well before the United States was even the United States, so we can go ahead and blame England for that. No white settlers were good to Native Americans, there were some tribes that co-mingled well (I think the French may have a better track record, but possible just in small areas), but just the disease we brought over in migration did a number on them.

    But yeah, mistreating a group of people hundreds of years ago by one set of countries is no excuse at all for another country to continue to do it in the modern day.


    I know about the apology. But they live in closed poor territories even today. And I hate every genocide in history!!!
    Native Americans are full American citizens and can live whereever they would like in the US. If they wish to live on a reservation, the US has set aside areas that non-native americans cannot live on and give tax-benefits to the tribes who do live there, some tribes even choose to be sovereign governments. They are not closed off into these territories the way they were historically, they are fully able to integrate into any other area of American life. That many live in poverty and have issues with alcoholism, and poverty is hard to break free from is a different issue and one not confined only to Native Americans.
    Last edited by Skittl1321; 02-07-2013 at 09:34 PM.

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