What? No children? Fending off the final female taboo

[Rob]

This thread reminds me of a joke the comic, Rita Rudner told a while back.

She and her husband couldn't decide if they wanted a dog or a child, before adding, "We don't know if we want to ruin our carpets or ruin our lives."

She had another good one "My husband and I want to have kids before our parents get too old to raise them."

I didn't have kids because I thought I would be a terrible parent. Always at work, no time or desire to make my life all about all their extracurricular events, no ability to take days off when they are sick. I don't regret it at all. My husband regrets it a little, but he doesn't regret that he didn't have the experience of raising a child, he regrets the "no-one to carry my name or take care of me when I am old" part. I told him once that we could have a kid if he would commit to being Mr. Mom. He wouldn't. Um, there is a guarantee that you have to take care of them, but there is no guarantee they will take care of you when you are old. They might hate you, or have no money, or move across the country to have a life of their own and not want you to move in with them.

Plus, I think cats are a heck of a lot cuter than people at any age. My cat does what I want to do on the weekend (sleep, eat), and she does not join soccer teams or want to take ballet or piano or karate. She is very tidy, and her bathroom is easier to clean than mine is.

And something else interesting - about 75% of my longtime female friends do not have children. Some were in dance and didn't want to get pregnant; some never met Mr. or Mrs. Right and didn't want to do it alone; but a lot of them just didn't want kids.

[elka_sk8]

Slightly OT, but I read this article today about the FMLA in the US and I had no idea that companies under a certain size were exempted. So a benefit that is pretty meager to brgin with doesnt even apply to a lot of workers. Honestly, the policies in this country don't make it easy to have a career and have a kid. It's something I worry about for sure.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/local/la...e2a_story.html

[Aussie Willy]

Apparently some people do really care that much because when I try to politely address the questioning my politeness goes over some people's heads and they seem to take it as an invitation to pursue even further questioning. And then I get to hear all sorts of original gems like:

-They're different when they're you're own!
-You'll change your mind later, you'll see!
-You just haven't met the right guy yet!

So, yeah. Some people really don't give a crap about what you do (I love you people), but some get rather offended when they hear "No thank you, I'll take a pass on all that!" to the kiddie question and take it as a personal affront. The polite answer to the initial "Why don't you have kids?" question doesn't always politely shut down the dialogue. In other words people don't always STFU when you give them the polite chance to STFU and move on in the interest of social harmony. Then when they don't STFU and you start taking a more clear and concise and assertive approach with the questioner (and maybe even come right out and say STFU because they're being particularly annoying) you get accused of being angry and bitter and of COURSE you're angry and bitter, if only you had kids then you wouldn't be so angry and bitter. Tsk tsk tsk, your life is so empty and sad, I really pity you. Kids would fix all that. It's not too late, you know.

Next time I have sushi I will think of you.

[Anita18]

Speaking of my hypothetical school/hospital/library, I was reading Bill Gates' AMA (IAmA) Q&A on Reddit and this comment made me :

I need you to see this, MR GATES! I don't have any questions. But I just want to thank you for 100% funding my undergraduate and masters. If not for the Gates Millennium Scholarship, I don't think I could have gone to college. So, once again, from the absolute bottom of my heart, THANK YOU. You have NO idea how much this means to me.

I mean, very few of us are as rich as Bill Gates to eradicate polio worldwide, but to make such a difference in even ONE kid's life is awesome. Even if they aren't your own.

[MacMadame]

Then when they don't STFU and you start taking a more clear and concise and assertive approach with the questioner (and maybe even come right out and say STFU because they're being particularly annoying) you get accused of being angry and bitter and of COURSE you're angry and bitter, if only you had kids then you wouldn't be so angry and bitter. Tsk tsk tsk, your life is so empty and sad, I really pity you. Kids would fix all that. It's not too late, you know.

Next time ask them why care so much what other people do and, clearly, if they didn't have kids, their life would have more meaning and they wouldn't be so bitter and angry that they have to nag everyone to make the same choices they did in order to make themselves feel better.

But you should definitely try sushi again. It's awesome.

I assure her that they will be incredibly thankful for what she's done for them when they're older

There is absolutely no guarantee of this. They may grow up to hate her or to have an uneasy relationship with her as my siblings do with our mothers.

I mean, very few of us are as rich as Bill Gates to eradicate polio worldwide, but to make such a difference in even ONE kid's life is awesome. Even if they aren't your own.

I have made a difference in one kid's life. I inspired the kid of someone I work with to make cake pops and I gave her some of my supplies and I have a Thank You card on my desk to prove it. So there.

[milanessa]

But you should definitely try sushi again. It's awesome.

No, it's not. Blech...

[Aussie Willy]

I have made a difference in one kid's life. I inspired the kid of someone I work with to make cake pops and I gave her some of my supplies and I have a Thank You card on my desk to prove it. So there.

I think you have shown your worth by this endeavour alone.

[Southpaw]

I have made a difference in one kid's life. I inspired the kid of someone I work with to make cake pops and I gave her some of my supplies and I have a Thank You card on my desk to prove it. So there.

Meanwhile, I still have no eyeballs.

[Angelskates]

Slightly OT, but I read this article today about the FMLA in the US and I had no idea that companies under a certain size were exempted. So a benefit that is pretty meager to brgin with doesnt even apply to a lot of workers. Honestly, the policies in this country don't make it easy to have a career and have a kid. It's something I worry about for sure.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/local/la...e2a_story.html

That's the kind of thing that should be asked in advance though. I own a very small company (myself and two others) and there's no way I could give maternity benefits. My colleague's wife is pregnant and giving him a week off when his child is born is going to loose me money, and give ME a lot more work (that I will have to do for free). I'm not necessarily even giving him a week, I'm making sure he gets 5 consecutive days off - so if it's born on a Wednesday, he needs to be back at work the following Monday. I just can't afford it, and he knows it and completely understands. I can't afford to pay someone who isn't working, no matter how good they are at their job, they're not good for me if they can't work.

[elka_sk8]

That's the kind of thing that should be asked in advance though. I own a very small company (myself and two others) and there's no way I could give maternity benefits. My colleague's wife is pregnant and giving him a week off when his child is born is going to loose me money, and give ME a lot more work (that I will have to do for free). I'm not necessarily even giving him a week, I'm making sure he gets 5 consecutive days off - so if it's born on a Wednesday, he needs to be back at work the following Monday. I just can't afford it, and he knows it and completely understands. I can't afford to pay someone who isn't working, no matter how good they are at their job, they're not good for me if they can't work.

While I agree it's something that should be discussed, FMLA is unpaid leave, and it applies to more than maternity. One doesn't plan getting cancer, or having a family member get a serious illness.

Just out of curiosity, what happens when a female in your company has a baby? Do they come back that soon too? I just wonder what women do when they cant even take unpaid leave, many daycare places don't even take babies until they're a couple months old.

[maatTheViking]

That's the kind of thing that should be asked in advance though. I own a very small company (myself and two others) and there's no way I could give maternity benefits. My colleague's wife is pregnant and giving him a week off when his child is born is going to loose me money, and give ME a lot more work (that I will have to do for free). I'm not necessarily even giving him a week, I'm making sure he gets 5 consecutive days off - so if it's born on a Wednesday, he needs to be back at work the following Monday. I just can't afford it, and he knows it and completely understands. I can't afford to pay someone who isn't working, no matter how good they are at their job, they're not good for me if they can't work.

I totally get that it is a big burden for small companies, but I find it odd that you are not entitled to leave without pay at least, and some compensation from the government if your company doesn't pay? I wonder why it doesn't work in the US, but many European companies have longer maternity and paternity leaves? (with no exceptions) I can only assume that the difference in law is followed up with a difference in who foots the bill as well?
I know that when my sister in law gave birth, she was running her own company with no employees, and she basically got unemployment rate from the state for her leave (which was 6-8 months).

What if you have a female employee giving birth? It would be physically impossible to return to work 5 days after birth, IMHO.

Btw, out of curiosity, what do yo do if one of you employees get the flu - a real flu can leave you unable to get out of bed for 10-14 days (or any other longer medical issue, but the flu is relatively common and severe)

[MacMadame]

Meanwhile, I still have no eyeballs.

It's because you are childless. Or maybe it's because you don't like sushi.

[Angelskates]

While I agree it's something that should be discussed, FMLA is unpaid leave, and it applies to more than maternity. One doesn't plan getting cancer, or having a family member get a serious illness.

Just out of curiosity, what happens when a female in your company has a baby? Do they come back that soon too? I just wonder what women do when they cant even take unpaid leave, many daycare places don't even take babies until they're a couple months old.

The females in my company either have a child and won't have more (she's Chinese) or know the deal (that's me) and will plan accordingly, not that it's an issues. I could not afford to keep someone's job open for unpaid leave, because it costs money for me to employ a new person (visas, bringing them over etc.). My company can only sponsor two foreign visas (by law), mine and someone else's. If that someone else can't work, they need to be replaced.

I totally get that it is a big burden for small companies, but I find it odd that you are not entitled to leave without pay at least, and some compensation from the government if your company doesn't pay? I wonder why it doesn't work in the US, but many European companies have longer maternity and paternity leaves? (with no exceptions) I can only assume that the difference in law is followed up with a difference in who foots the bill as well?
I know that when my sister in law gave birth, she was running her own company with no employees, and she basically got unemployment rate from the state for her leave (which was 6-8 months).

What if you have a female employee giving birth? It would be physically impossible to return to work 5 days after birth, IMHO.

Btw, out of curiosity, what do yo do if one of you employees get the flu - a real flu can leave you unable to get out of bed for 10-14 days (or any other longer medical issue, but the flu is relatively common and severe)

I've explained about the females above. I own a foreign company (in Beijing) so the government doesn't pay anything. If someone had a long illness, longer than a week, they would know I would need to replace them. It hasn't happened yet, but everyone signed the contract. If the sick person was me, I would also be on unpaid leave, and would do my best to find a temporary replacement already in Beijing (my visa can't be cancelled since I am the owner, so I wouldn't be able to sponsor another visa), but if I couldn't I would have to cut costs significantly, make some big changes, or fold the business, to be able to cope. It's just the way it is, and everyone knows it. Even me taking one day off loses money (because I have to cancel clients). Small companies have it tough, so it can be tough for the employees as well. The benefits outweigh the disadvantages though, because I've had the same team since I began. But, for me, I would still never choose to work for a big company. My situation seems unique, yet many who set up small businesses here have exactly the same issues, and we deal with them the best we can.

[Yazmeen]

In my mid-fifties. Childless by choice, not a maternal bone in my body, possibly influenced by my own contentious relationship with my mother as an adult. Married a man who also had no interest in children. We are self-employed professionals with two cats we spoil and adore. We like the freedom to work at odd hours, make decisions to do things with last-minute planning, skate and participate in other activities, and travel quite a bit. We love our lives.

Whenever I'm asked how we've been married so long (coming up on 28 years) and together for so long (10 years longer), we're always quick to mention that amongst other factors, we are childless, because we know it made things much easier for us financially, work-wise and otherwise. According to some, we are "selfish," but we have no regrets. Best decision we ever made for us.

[Badams]

I will never understand why people care so much about why others choose to not have kids, even going as far as singing the praises of kids/parenthood to completely uninterested people. Just like I will never understand people who are childless by choice caring enough to prove the awesomeness of their decision by completely belittling parents and trashing all kids. Who has time for such ridiculous behavior? Aren't there more interesting things to insult each other about?

[Southpaw]

People who like Beef on Weck are stoopid.

[my little pony]

what is a weck?

[milanessa]

People who like Beef on Weck are stoopid.

Screw you.

what is a weck?

[Badams]

People who like Beef on Weck are stoopid.

you might apprecite it more with a tall glass of brown Jersey water, no?

[MacMadame]

you might apprecite it more with a tall glass of brown Jersey water, no?

And sushi.