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  1. #21
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    I personally think that

    (a) the last female taboo is being able to enjoy sex without being thought a slut

    and

    (b) there tons of good reasons to not want to have kids but the fact that they are "untidy" and "ungrateful" is one that seems kind of superficial and lame.

    Though I think it's goood that someone who thinks like that didn't actually have kids.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    It is? I thought that being a parent gave most parents license to complain about how haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrd it is to have kids at the drop of a hat.
    Don't forget "You don't know what 'tired' means till you have kids!" Um, I've had insomnia three nights in a row before. I think I know what "tired" means.

    I adore children and I really want some of my own. But if it ever happens, I hope I remember what it was like to be childless, and don't go shooting my mouth off like that.
    Charter member of the "We Always Believed in Ashley" Club and the "We Believe in Ricky" Club
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I think you are allowed to complain about some thing but not about others.
    I think that's true. But it seems perfectly acceptable to make comments like these:

    Of course its hard, the most difficult thing i have ever done

    "You don't know what 'tired' means till you have kids!"

    Maybe I am just weird, but having kids has its stressful days--but so does my job, my marriage, my relationship with my family and just about everything else in my life that is important and takes up a lot of my time and emotional and mental energy. In the overall sense of things, however, the positives have far outweighed the negatives, and I don't think having kids is the hardest thing I have ever done. Like I said, I enjoyed it.

    When someone tells me how having a child is the hardest thing he or she has ever done, I am always shocked. Really? I can see that for someone who has a teenager who is putting a parent through hell or someone who has a child with severe disabilities or mental illness, but if parenting a normal child is the hardest thing you've ever done, you've led a pretty charmed life if you ask me.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    (b) there tons of good reasons to not want to have kids but the fact that they are "untidy" and "ungrateful" is one that seems kind of superficial and lame.
    ITA, but I think the same about people who say "Ewwww, I can't do diapers."

    There are so many things that are so much worse .

    But as in the single thread, I think that "untidy" and "ungrateful" are more metaphorical than realistic.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    When someone tells me how having a child is the hardest thing he or she has ever done, I am always shocked. Really? I can see that for someone who has a teenager who is putting a parent through hell or someone who has a child with severe disabilities or mental illness, but if parenting a normal child is the hardest thing you've ever done, you've led a pretty charmed life if you ask me.
    I don't know, I found the first couple of months, even years kind of hard in one way. They were draining for me even though I had an easy kid. But it was enough work that I didn't want to run out and have another one right away.

    Not that I said to anyone it was the hardest thing I'd ever done.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    I think that's true. But it seems perfectly acceptable to make comments like these:

    Of course its hard, the most difficult thing i have ever done

    "You don't know what 'tired' means till you have kids!"
    The thing that bugged me most about my sisters is they think I know nothing because I don't have kids. Even stuff that was not related to kids. How could I know anything without that life experience?
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wyliefan View Post
    Don't forget "You don't know what 'tired' means till you have kids!" .
    I had that one thrown at me once when I was recovering from a serious illness. Apparently, it did not make me tired since I did not have children.

  7. #27
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    The odd thing for me is that I thought one day my so-called "biological clock" would kick in and I would want a child pronto. But that moment never arrived and so I do not have children. Don't get wrong--I love them---but I still do not want to be a Mom. I am having fun being the "awesome" aunt (not my words.) I love my nieces dearly and am glad my sister and her husband wanted children. They are "awesome" parents. If tomorrow I suddenly feel the need for a child I would consider foster care. There are still so many neglected kids out there and I am too old to have a baby.

  8. #28
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    I know I am young, but the idea of being pregnant and giving birth in particular are just completely unappealing, and the idea of raising a child isn't particularly appealing either. I really like being by myself. I always have. Of course, because I am only 23, I can't possibly know my own mind on this yet, even though I have never at any point in my life thought that I would like to have children some day. I had my first gynecologist - a male - look at me like I was an idiot when I told him I didn't think I wanted to have kids, and actually say, "you're female. All females want babies." I was so pissed off I was shaking.

    It's interesting that you brought this up now, though, as, and this is so geeky so please feel free to ignore it , but last week I got in a pretty lengthy argument on a community for Battlestar Galactica fans. The main female character is a complex, intelligent, hardworking former-teacher in her 50s who has never had children. It's clear that she loves children, but at no point in the show does anyone comment on her childless state, and neither does she. Someone recently asked the question, "why did Laura Roslin never have children? Did she want them?"

    I was completely shocked by how many people - women, mostly - were certain that of course this character had wanted children, because she was a woman and a teacher, so there was no way she didn't. Obviously, something had happened which prevented her from having children. It blew my mind how many people simply couldn't believe that a well-adjusted woman who liked kids wouldn't want any herself. That was completely impossible to many of them. When I said that I was a young, female teacher who didn't want kids, I got the usual, oh, honey, you will some day response. It was extremely irksome.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    I know I am young, but the idea of being pregnant and giving birth in particular are just completely unappealing, and the idea of raising a child isn't particularly appealing either. I really like being by myself. I always have. Of course, because I am only 23, I can't possibly know my own mind on this yet, even though I have never at any point in my life thought that I would like to have children some day. I had my first gynecologist - a male - look at me like I was an idiot when I told him I didn't think I wanted to have kids, and actually say, "you're female. All females want babies." I was so pissed off I was shaking.
    For the record, I was so terrified of being pregnant and giving birth and taking care of a newborn, it put me off having children. I like kids, but babies? In the end my husband convinced me, and it was much less hassle than I thought. Yes, I will never be one of those glowy happy pregnant women who thinks that being pregnant is just amazing!!!, but once it was over, I went - huh, I was worried about that? Taking care of a newborn was 'easy' too - even not liking babies you love your own .

    It is funny, I was not sure I would enjoy being a mom, so my expectations were a bit low, which means I just went with the flow and in the end it has been the greatest thing ever! That took me by surprise. Conversely, some of my friends who have been talking about getting kids since they were teens sometimes feel a little disappointed...

    In any case, you may never feel the need to have children, you may feel conflicted even if you get them, or you may choose to never have them - but I have now learned that it was silly to be afraid of pregnancy. btw, I wasn't 'ready' until I was 30, had my first at 32.

    as for hardest thing - I think taking care of a newborn 4 weeks early baby was the hardest thing I have ever done. That doesn't mean there aren't any harder things people do.

  10. #30
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    I'm not afraid of being pregnant or giving birth. Saying it's unappealing does not mean I am afraid.

  11. #31
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    I have no kids but it was not necessarily by choice.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    I'm not afraid of being pregnant or giving birth. Saying it's unappealing does not mean I am afraid.
    Sorry michiruwater, I was projecting

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    I (b) there tons of good reasons to not want to have kids but the fact that they are "untidy" and "ungrateful" is one that seems kind of superficial and lame.
    Yeah, I have absolutely nothing against people having or not having children. It's their choice and none of my business but that reason was just...

    It made her sound bitter, jaded and quite troubled. Like she'd in fact want them but was anxious or something.

  14. #34
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    I would think the hardest part is with a pet, you can get rid of them legally if you just can't take it. Or crate them. Or drug them. (I'm fostering a two-year-old terrier mix, can you tell? OH MY GOD PLEASE GO TO SLEEP.)

    As for that FATHER quoted...I'm sure it's great for him. He wasn't pregnant. That's the part I'd really not like.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    I'm not afraid of being pregnant or giving birth. Saying it's unappealing does not mean I am afraid.
    a lot of people gloss over the gory details to lure you into joining them

    my great grandmother used to talk about what it was like to give birth at home when that was commonplace. after her first delivery, she was so appalled that she made her husband move.
    I feel like I'm in a dream. But it can't be a dream because there are no boy dancers!

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by maatTheViking View Post
    For the record, I was so terrified of being pregnant and giving birth and taking care of a newborn, it put me off having children.
    Quote Originally Posted by danceronice View Post
    I would think the hardest part is with a pet, you can get rid of them legally if you just can't take it. Or crate them. Or drug them. (I'm fostering a two-year-old terrier mix, can you tell? OH MY GOD PLEASE GO TO SLEEP.)
    That and just the 24/7 responsibility intimidated me for the longest time!! And you have NO IDEA what kind of kid you're gonna get. May be a sweetie, may be a monster, could be anything in between. And geez, at least with a spouse you have SOME idea of what you're getting into before you commit, but with a kid? Total roll of the dice. That said, though, I'm glad we did it.

    The first year or two were definitely no picnic, with the lack of sleep and postpartum depression and other major life changes happening with me and my hubby. It was rotten. And yes, there are plenty of times my kid is ungrateful, but aren't all kids like that? Wasn't I like that? Let's be real. They're not gonna be perfect, no more than any of us are perfect.

    The main pet peeve with me and whether to have kids is that people need to be realistic about it all. Can't stand people who are all starry-eyed about cute, sweet little babies and being a mommy/daddy and they just don't have a grasp on the reality of it all, so when it happens they're all like "oooooohhhhhhmmmmyyyyyyggooooooodddddd I can't handle it. . ." Or they think they can completely continue their previous lifestyle without a single change and then resent the kid for "spoiling" their fun. Those are the sort of people who should strongly consider NOT having children!
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    I'm not afraid of being pregnant or giving birth.
    I'm a bit afraid, and it has effected my decision a bit, though mostly it is DH's decision. He just doesn't want them and feels his life is complete without them. "Everyone else has them" and "who will take care of us when we are old" seem to be entirely selfish reasons to have kids, so they haven't swayed him.

    Back to scared of giving birth- Due to psychological reasons, I am not willing to have an epidural. The pain associated with labor terrifies me, as my friends have told me they were in excruciating pain before they got their drugs, and none have delivered naturally, so what the heck kind of pain are you in for there?

    (I also worry about my health later in life, and feel like it is selfish to have a kid when I know I may not be able to support them into their adulthood. But that is just a total unknown and people in worse situations have managed, so it is probably an uncessary fear.)

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by michiruwater View Post
    I know I am young, but the idea of being pregnant and giving birth in particular are just completely unappealing, and the idea of raising a child isn't particularly appealing either. I really like being by myself. I always have. Of course, because I am only 23, I can't possibly know my own mind on this yet, even though I have never at any point in my life thought that I would like to have children some day. I had my first gynecologist - a male - look at me like I was an idiot when I told him I didn't think I wanted to have kids, and actually say, "you're female. All females want babies." I was so pissed off I was shaking.
    The thing is, a lot of people are put off by the idea of being pregnant, especially at your age. They often change their minds and end up having kids. Which means people aren't going to take you seriously even if you do know your own mind and it isn't going to change.

    I know it's annoying, but they've seen enough other people say what you've said and change their minds that it makes them kind of smug and quite willing to dismiss you.

    In my case, I always thought I wanted kids (if I could get them without being pregnant), but I wasn't sure about marriage. I remember telling people when I was around 11 that I didn't think I wanted to get married because I didn't see the advantages in it for me. I thought that if I did get married, I'd wait until I was "really old" which to my 11 year old mind was about 35.

    Of course, all the grown-ups were quite condescending about it. "Oh, honey, you'll change your mind when you discover boys." they all said. But the thing is, I never said I didn't want to date boys. I said I didn't want to get married. Those are two different things. And, while I did eventually change my mind, I didn't get married until I was in my 30s and it was mostly because I wanted to have kids and thought it was better to be married for various reasons than not be married if you were going to have kids with someone, not because I'd been dreaming since I was a tiny girl of my wedding day.

    So while I changed my mind, those grown-ups who patted me on the head weren't right either. I didn't go through puberty, "discover" boys and instantly want to get married. I didn't want to get married until my 20s and it was a gradual process of changing my mind and it had nothing to do with "discovering" boys.

    The same with you. You may change your mind some day too and decide having kids is worth the getting pregnant part. But that doesn't mean that that Gyn/OB was right either. And you might never change your mind.

    But because you are a woman there are some people who will never accept that you won't some day change your mind until you are dead and even then they will remain convinced that deep down somewhere you really did want kids. (Because they are idiots.)
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    I'm a bit afraid, and it has effected my decision a bit, though mostly it is DH's decision. He just doesn't want them and feels his life is complete without them. "Everyone else has them" and "who will take care of us when we are old" seem to be entirely selfish reasons to have kids, so they haven't swayed him.

    Back to scared of giving birth- Due to psychological reasons, I am not willing to have an epidural. The pain associated with labor terrifies me, as my friends have told me they were in excruciating pain before they got their drugs, and none have delivered naturally, so what the heck kind of pain are you in for there?

    (I also worry about my health later in life, and feel like it is selfish to have a kid when I know I may not be able to support them into their adulthood. But that is just a total unknown and people in worse situations have managed, so it is probably an uncessary fear.)
    It is selfish to have kids. In is selfish to not have kids....


    Honestly, you should make that choice based on what makes you happy .

    As for labor pain - I had an epidural and it was not that painful because of it.

    Most people in Denmark don't get epidurals, and they say it is painful, but not that bad. There are lots if techniques you can use to reduce pain if you want a natural birth.

  20. #40
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    My husband and I never felt the need or desire to have children. We prefer living our lives our way without worrying about babysitting and responsibilities. When I want to work late. I do. When he wants to, he does. We pack up and travel on the weekends. We avoid the grocery store and munch on leftovers and beer. We have no pets. I have no nieces and nephews. It is just how we chose to live our lives in our 20s and early 30s.

    At 35 I was diagnosed with suspected ovarian cancer and had a total hysterectomy. So at that point the choice was made for me. There are moments when I think that maybe I should have had kids earlier, but I still can't picture myself as a mom. I love kids. I enjoy taking care of friends' children. But I don't think I'd be a good or happy mom. I still get comments from people. People at work say I should adopt. My extended family bemoans my childless state. I'm used to it at this point. Just as I tell people who choose to stay single, I admire the choice to go against the norms of society. I know that my husband and I are comfortable with each other and love each other enough to know it is okay that it is just us.

    That's not a slam against people with kids. They are just as likely to have happy marriages or relationships. I just know that I feel secure in my life choices and that is what is important to me.

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