What? No children? Fending off the final female taboo

[Skittl1321]

As for labor pain - I had an epidural and it was not that painful because of it.

Most people in Denmark don't get epidurals, and they say it is painful, but not that bad. There are lots if techniques you can use to reduce pain if you want a natural birth.

But I don't want a natural birth- I hate being in pain and do not handle it well. However, I don't think I can mentally handle an epidural. When I broke my neck I was fully (but thank God, temporarily) paraylzed. Since then, even waking up with my arm 'asleep' can upset me so much that I can't function that day. I can't imagine how I'd react to not being able to feel my lower body for an extended period of time, so I don't think an epidural is an option for me. They'd end up having to treat me for panic attcks rather than getting me to deliver a baby...

Since DH doesn't want a kid, it's moot I think it is actually okay that I have these issues, because sometimes I really do want kids, and having so many worries and fears makes it easier for me to accept DH's decision. If i didn't have any reservations, I think it would be really difficult, because while he's said if I want him, he'll deal with it, you can't compromise on kids- it's an all or nothing.

[heckles]

The thing that bugged me most about my sisters is they think I know nothing because I don't have kids. Even stuff that was not related to kids.

Ah, the whole, "I have this supernatural knowledge of all things, insight into the human psyche, a selfless personality and spotless morals because I have kids!" Considering that about 90% of adults in the world have kids, how is it that we live in such a screwed-up world?

[LilJen]

But I don't want a natural birth- I hate being in pain and do not handle it well. However, I don't think I can mentally handle an epidural. When I broke my neck I was fully (but thank God, temporarily) paraylzed. Since then, even waking up with my arm 'asleep' can upset me so much that I can't function that day. I can't imagine how I'd react to not being able to feel my lower body for an extended period of time, so I don't think an epidural is an option for me. They'd end up having to treat me for panic attacks rather than getting me to deliver a baby...

Since DH doesn't want a kid, it's moot I think it is actually okay that I have these issues, because sometimes I really do want kids, and having so many worries and fears makes it easier for me to accept DH's decision. If i didn't have any reservations, I think it would be really difficult, because while he's said if I want him, he'll deal with it, you can't compromise on kids- it's an all or nothing.

Have you ever considered fostering? Involves NO labor pain, and can be done for a finite amount of time

[MacMadame]

Since then, even waking up with my arm 'asleep' can upset me so much that I can't function that day. I can't imagine how I'd react to not being able to feel my lower body for an extended period of time, so I don't think an epidural is an option for me. They'd end up having to treat me for panic attcks rather than getting me to deliver a baby...

It depends on how the epidural "works". With both of mine, I had areas of tingling and wasn't really completely numb. Which didn't make me happy. Anyway, there are a lot of things going on during a birth and that part of it can be over rather quickly so I wouldn't let that stop you.

The real reasons not to have kids IMO are all about the stuff that comes afterwards. The birthing part and even the pregnancy part is pretty short and, as has been pointed out, can be side-stepped even. But kids are FOREVER. So that's the part you have to worry about.

[Gil-Galad]

I was never sure about having kids. And I never had a perfect life-plan that included marriage, mortgage and kids. But I also thought that I might have some with the "right" bloke.

Last year, at the ripe old age of 27, I was diagnosed with a fully blown case of Premature Ovarian Failure. No therapy possible, no interventions (IVF) promising.

And I broke down. I cried for days and days, I yelled at the world about the how unfair everything was. Me - the girl who was always quite relaxed about these things, who has a promising career in the making and never thought that children were essential for my happiness. I was devastated, I think I even frightened my parents with it, who know me as well-balanced and even rather stoic.

Was it because deep down I really wanted kids? Was it simply because the choice was taken from me before I could even make it? Whatever it was / is - I think that this question, whether to have kids or not, is so intimate, so profound - that it cannot be answered easily. I don't want to tell anyone that I don't believe that they don't want to have kids. But I'd like to say that maybe this issue goes a lot deeper than we might think.

I do believe that you can be happy without children, I have to believe that. But if I had been given this diagnosis with a little positive twist ("You might have one fertile year left"), I might have considered asking my gay best friend for a favour.

[Skittl1321]

Have you ever considered fostering? Involves NO labor pain, and can be done for a finite amount of time

Well, my husband doesn't want kids, so I'm not sure that would be a good option for us.

[maatTheViking]

But I don't want a natural birth- I hate being in pain and do not handle it well. However, I don't think I can mentally handle an epidural. When I broke my neck I was fully (but thank God, temporarily) paraylzed. Since then, even waking up with my arm 'asleep' can upset me so much that I can't function that day. I can't imagine how I'd react to not being able to feel my lower body for an extended period of time, so I don't think an epidural is an option for me. They'd end up having to treat me for panic attcks rather than getting me to deliver a baby...
.

Epidurals shouldn't leave you numb IMHO. You want to feel the contractions so you know when to push - just not feel PAIN IT BURNS!!! For me, the biggest issue was trusting someone to put a 15cm needle in my spine ...

And I agree, it's all the stuff after that should stop you - and it seems like that is it.

[cygnus]

I didn't have an epidural either time, due to timing issues. Neither labour was especially painful, although both were hard work (it's called "labour" for a reason!) Nor was parenting especially hard, they were both good babies and kids. They have both grown up now into lovely young people. Not that there weren't issues along the way (try being the only non ADHD person in a family of 4!), but I can't imagine life without my kids.

But my choices (although number one cygnet wasn't actually a "choice"- more of a surprise! )suited me, and everyone has to make their own decisions- taking into account their own relationships, finances and temperaments.

[Anita18]

I personally think that

(a) the last female taboo is being able to enjoy sex without being thought a slut

and

(b) there tons of good reasons to not want to have kids but the fact that they are "untidy" and "ungrateful" is one that seems kind of superficial and lame.

Though I think it's goood that someone who thinks like that didn't actually have kids.

Seriously. The responsibility of raising a good citizen is very intimidating to me right now, although part of me also acknowledges that we'd likely be pretty chill and supportive parents, because we've been so chill and supportive towards each other. But you never know - I could end up with a sociopathic axe murderer!

Also, we might never feel settled enough to have kids. Both Alf and I are in the middle of career changes and we live in a studio. I know it's possible to raise good kids while still figuring out your career (exhibit A: my grad student coworker raising 2 young kids basically on her own), but her life is just SO hard, that I'm wondering why make it harder for everybody if we have the choice to wait?

Lastly, I hate throwing up and my mother had really bad morning sickness. But I'm sure I'd survive.

I think that's true. But it seems perfectly acceptable to make comments like these:

Of course its hard, the most difficult thing i have ever done

"You don't know what 'tired' means till you have kids!"

Maybe I am just weird, but having kids has its stressful days--but so does my job, my marriage, my relationship with my family and just about everything else in my life that is important and takes up a lot of my time and emotional and mental energy. In the overall sense of things, however, the positives have far outweighed the negatives, and I don't think having kids is the hardest thing I have ever done. Like I said, I enjoyed it.

When someone tells me how having a child is the hardest thing he or she has ever done, I am always shocked. Really? I can see that for someone who has a teenager who is putting a parent through hell or someone who has a child with severe disabilities or mental illness, but if parenting a normal child is the hardest thing you've ever done, you've led a pretty charmed life if you ask me.

That's somewhat reassuring.

Ah, the whole, "I have this supernatural knowledge of all things, insight into the human psyche, a selfless personality and spotless morals because I have kids!" Considering that about 90% of adults in the world have kids, how is it that we live in such a screwed-up world?

I was never sure about having kids. And I never had a perfect life-plan that included marriage, mortgage and kids. But I also thought that I might have some with the "right" bloke.

Last year, at the ripe old age of 27, I was diagnosed with a fully blown case of Premature Ovarian Failure. No therapy possible, no interventions (IVF) promising.

And I broke down. I cried for days and days, I yelled at the world about the how unfair everything was. Me - the girl who was always quite relaxed about these things, who has a promising career in the making and never thought that children were essential for my happiness. I was devastated, I think I even frightened my parents with it, who know me as well-balanced and even rather stoic.

Was it because deep down I really wanted kids? Was it simply because the choice was taken from me before I could even make it? Whatever it was / is - I think that this question, whether to have kids or not, is so intimate, so profound - that it cannot be answered easily. I don't want to tell anyone that I don't believe that they don't want to have kids. But I'd like to say that maybe this issue goes a lot deeper than we might think.

I do believe that you can be happy without children, I have to believe that. But if I had been given this diagnosis with a little positive twist ("You might have one fertile year left"), I might have considered asking my gay best friend for a favour.

I'm sorry. It's always hard to have a decision made for you in such a way, before you're ready to really decide.

[Angelskates]

(((((Gil-Galad))))) I'm sorry. Childbirth is a huge risk for me because of heath problems, and the risk of me miscarrying, having complications, or still birth, is also really, really high. I agree with you that it's a really personal thing. For me, I don't want to explain things to people. Everyone thinks I should adopt a Chinese baby and then it will all be fine.

[UGG]

I really don't care if other people have children or not. Like...who has time to think about that?

[l'etoile]

(((Gil-Galad))) Just don't know what to say.

I personally don't see myself with kids or having kids in any future and I used to love kids to death. Surely it will be a precious experience, or if anything, the most precious one, that a person can go through but choice is choice.

[Wyliefan]

I met a new choir member this morning -- after we'd introduced ourselves, the first thing she said was, "Do you have kids?" Church ladies can be a hoot sometimes!

And Gil-Galad, I'm so sorry. *hugs*

[UGG]

It is funny-I had started trying to get pregnant in 2008 and did not actually get pregnant until 2010. People all the time would ask me why I did not have kids yet, and I finally started saying "I would really like children but I am having a problem getting pregnant."

I know that makes for a seriously awkward moment but asking someone why they don't have kids is just really rude. I mean the answer is either "I don't want them" or "I can't have them"...I mean...what other answer could their possibly be? I guess there could be the answers like "I am going back to school, going to travel. etc..." but like does the person who is asking really care that much?

[Aussie Willy]

It is funny-I had started trying to get pregnant in 2008 and did not actually get pregnant until 2010. People all the time would ask me why I did not have kids yet, and I finally started saying "I would really like children but I am having a problem getting pregnant."

I know that makes for a seriously awkward moment but asking someone why they don't have kids is just really rude. I mean the answer is either "I don't want them" or "I can't have them"...I mean...what other answer could their possibly be? I guess there could be the answers like "I am going back to school, going to travel. etc..." but like does the person who is asking really care that much?

Sometimes social conventions need to be challenged and people need to be put out of their comfort zone. It doesn't hurt them and they might actually learn something from the experience.

[Ziggy]

My god, you people are such deceptive, evil child hating gits.

WILLLY - female
MAAT - female

>.>

[maatTheViking]

My god, you people are such deceptive, evil child hating gits.

WILLLY - female
MAAT - female

>.>

haha, I have been tripping people up, but Maat is from the Egyptian goddess of truth and justice (she is the one that weighs your hear against a feather in the underworld). The funny part is I originally took it form a historic fiction book written in the 70's that erroneously used her as a goddess of wisdom and books and gave her wings.

[Aussie Willy]

haha, I have been tripping people up, but Maat is from the Egyptian goddess of truth and justice (she is the one that weighs your hear against a feather in the underworld). The funny part is I originally took it form a historic fiction book written in the 70's that erroneously used her as a goddess of wisdom and books and gave her wings.

I am just Willy because my surname is Wilson.

[Bunny Hop]

pml having pets makes me realize what a crappy parent I would be

This!! I love my cat, but at least when he's annoying I can put him in another room and lock the door, or spray him with water if he's behaving badly. Social services tend to frown on you doing the same to children.

From my early twenties I realised I wasn't interested in having children, but I also recognised that it was possible I would change my mind (I'd seen it happen to others), and warned my husband of that when we got engaged. What actually happened was I became more and more convinced that children weren't the right choice for me. There was no big decision or anything, and I also wouldn't call myself a career woman (two things people often assume about the childless-by-choice) - it was just a natural evolution in my life.

I'm fortunate that I don't move in the type of circles where people question my choice, although on the rare occasions this has happened, it's always been someone who doesn't know me. Friends and family just accept it and don't feel it needs discussion. This includes my parents, despite the fact I'm an only child so our line dies with me.

Just lately I've developed considerable admiration for the women I know who manage to combine demanding jobs with bringing up children. With some of the days I've had at work lately, with people making a lot of demands on my time, I cannot imagine then having to come home and deal with small demanding people as well.

[essence_of_soy]

This thread reminds me of a joke the comic, Rita Rudner told a while back.

She and her husband couldn't decide if they wanted a dog or a child, before adding, "We don't know if we want to ruin our carpets or ruin our lives."

For the record, I'd make a terrible parent.