Nikolai Morozov cheer thread?

[Ziggy]

So what's with all the hate?

1) He's a racist, xenophobic twat.

2) His choreography can be rarely interesting but the vast majority of it is horrifically bad. He's destroyed a number of really interesting skaters but giving them empty programs.

I also get that he's likes his women. Skaters often date/marry one another, so that's not uncommon. From what I've observed, it's not like he's going after underage girls and, frankly, it takes two to tango. So I really don't get the fuss about that and I don't know why anyone would particularly care.

This has made me .

You seriously think it's ok to abuse the power you have as a coach to get into a relationship with your student? It's not an equal level playing field! Which is why in some countries the age of consent is 18 in such cases.

And FYI, Ilynikh was 17 when they started dating, IIRC.

For me, the age issue is not really that important though.

The point is that if you have a teacher/student, coach/athlete, therapist/patient, etc. relationship, it's very easy to get infatuated. The other person spends a lot of time with you, cares for you, guides you, etc. Which is why it's important to have ethical standards, remain professional and keep the appropriate boundaries.

Morozov strikes me as a slimeball who will screw everything that moves.

[kosjenka]

i think he is a vampire.
Could name half a dozen reasons to support this, but I think it would not be so wise on his cheer thread.... even if it does end with a ?

[pingu]

1) He's a racist, xenophobic twat.

2) His choreography can be rarely interesting but the vast majority of it is horrifically bad. He's destroyed a number of really interesting skaters but giving them empty programs.


You seriously think it's ok to abuse the power you have as a coach to get into a relationship with your student? It's not an equal level playing field! Which is why in some countries the age of consent is 18 in such cases.

And FYI, Ilynikh was 17 when they started dating, IIRC.

For me, the age issue is not really that important though.

The point is that if you have a teacher/student, coach/athlete, therapist/patient, etc. relationship, it's very easy to get infatuated. The other person spends a lot of time with you, cares for you, guides you, etc. Which is why it's important to have ethical standards, remain professional and keep the appropriate boundaries.

Morozov strikes me as a slimeball who will screw everything that moves.

Exactly. And I also find disgusting that the Russian federation isn't doing anything about this. It's impossible they don't know about Morozov's behaviour, and the fact that they don't do anyting to change this situation simply disgusts me. Btw I don't know how is the Russian law about this, but in Italy if you sleep with your patient/student/athete, it's considered rape.

[rayhaneh]

Exactly. And I also find disgusting that the Russian federation isn't doing anything about this. It's impossible they don't know about Morozov's behaviour, and the fact that they don't do anyting to change this situation simply disgusts me. Btw I don't know how is the Russian law about this, but in Italy if you sleep with your patient/student/athete, it's considered rape.

You mean in Italy, if a university teacher is sleeping with a university student, it's rape? And I can't remember any athlete in Italy, but cases of coaches going out with the athlete they train or even marrying them is hardly uncommon

I'm not saying that it's an ideal situation btw, and yes, a coach/ student relationships poses ethical issues

[care bear]

Exactly. And I also find disgusting that the Russian federation isn't doing anything about this. It's impossible they don't know about Morozov's behaviour, and the fact that they don't do anyting to change this situation simply disgusts me.

I think Mr. Morozov is considering by the Russian Fed as savior of the Russian figure skating, so he has got something like Carte blanche.

[TAHbKA]

You mean in Italy, if a university teacher is sleeping with a university student, it's rape?

You mean a history student dating a physics lecturer never taking physics? I doubt it would be considered anything if the student is above a certain age. I think pingu meant a lecturer who is dating HIS/HER student while the student is taking HIS/HER class.

And I can't remember any athlete in Italy, but cases of coaches going out with the athlete they train or even marrying them is hardly uncommon

You mean recently? I can't remember any except for Morozov. Or you mean back in Mishina/Mishin or Moskvina/Moskvin times?

[rayhaneh]

You mean a history student dating a physics lecturer never taking physics? I doubt it would be considered anything if the student is above a certain age. I think pingu meant a lecturer who is dating HIS/HER student while the student is taking HIS/HER class.?

I still don't see how that would qualify as statutory rape, as long as we are talking adults (again, as far as morality goes, it a whole other issue)

You mean recently? I can't remember any except for Morozov. Or you mean back in Mishina/Mishin or Moskvina/Moskvin times?

I'm thinking all sports

[fsfan22]

I wouldn't call these programs "cheap":
...

Oda: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSmFqlFXa3s

Clever program, but a 50-second step sequence is a bit excessive in my books.

[antmanb]

Clever program, but a 50-second step sequence is a bit excessive in my books.

I don't really see how that particular step sequence is an example of excessive - I thought it was brilliantly choregoraphed, at a time when under IJS you had to still attempt to do the steps in a pattern (that at least in this case was recognisably circular unlike the straighline ones of its time) and get all complexity for levels. I think step sequences take too long under IJS but this was just brilliant IMO.

[pingu]

I mean that if a doctor/coach/teacher is sleeping with his/her patient/pupil/student, the patient/pupil/student has the right to report it as rape, because they are in a situation of psychological dependance towards their doctor/coach/teacher.
I am not saying that if a 30 year old teacher is sleeping with his 20 year old student it's a rape, but the student has the right to go to the police/whatever else and say that that person used his teacher authority to sleep with her. I hope it's clear now, I don't know the exact English terms for explaining this so I hope I have been clear enough.

[Cherub721]

His serial cheating is a big part. I don't think it's just about getting involved with students, but the fact that he or the student is often married. He was supposedly married, and his wife pregnant, when he got involved with Shae-Lynn. Then while married to Shae-Lynn, had an affair with Grushina, while coaching her and her husband. Kind of awkward. With that said, I don't like how others like Zhulin seem to get more of a pass for doing similar things (cheating on Usova with Navka and Grishuk, and I'm pretty sure Mikhailova was still in juniors when he started dating her and I believe he was still married to Navka too). I think Morozov's generally creepy personality and his racist comments make people less inclined to like him.

My main skating issue with him is as an ice dance coach/choreographer. With the singles and pairs, yeah, he mostly sucks, but not always, and he is hardly the only one choreographing empty programs. I have higher standards for dance. So many of his dances were carbon copies of previous ones. GrushGons 2005 FD ripped off L&T's Air/Storm and their 2006 FD ripped of G&P and N&K's The Feeling Begins. GregPets 2006 FD was a ripoff of A&P's Romeo & Juliet. I'm not saying you can never use the same music as another team, but those dances included similar music cuts, choreography, and costumes. It was just lazy.

And it's not much better when he tries to be original. B&K's 2003 FD was like a parody of Russian ice dance, but not meant to be. Then there was I&K's Ave Maria where they waited to reveal it (going so far as to skate it to different music at the Russian test skate) because it was so original... and, well, let's just say there was a reason noone has used it before. And then this year, outdoing himself with Ghost... I mean, they literally have the words "I'm talking to YOU, esse!" in their FD! I just can't!

[Wyliefan]

First thought when I saw the thread title: "That's gonna be the shortest thread in FSU history."

[danceronice]

First thought when I saw the thread title: "That's gonna be the shortest thread in FSU history."

ROTFL, I clicked mostly because I was thinking "How on Earth is that thread two pages?"

[DaiKozOda]

I can't remember any except for Morozov. Or you mean back in Mishina/Mishin or Moskvina/Moskvin times?

Zhulin and Tatiana Navka
Zhulin with Natalia Mikhailova
:p

Truth must be said, that as far as I remember Navka and Zhulin started to date before he became her coach. But he was indeed Mikhailova's coach when they started dating.
Tatiana Malinina was also coached by her boyfriend at some point. I believe he used to compete in singles as well but would coach Malinina.

[Cherub721]

Vassiliev also dated two students - Totmianina and Mukhortova.

Then there was Angela Nikodinev coaching Ivan Dinev, Contesti and Chiper being coached by their wives... but in those cases I am not sure if the romantic relationship began before the coaching one, and anyway, they are all similar in age so you don't get the impression one has authority and influence over the other.

[DaiKozOda]

Wasn't Michael Weiss married with his choreographer?

Anyway, I do like some of Morozov's work. One thing in which he seems to excel is in giving confidence to his students.

[JasperBoy]

Four words....he hurt our Shae. That is all.

[Vash01]

Wasn't this supposed to be a cheer thread? I always thought it was meant to point out the positives.

Normally if there is a cheer thread about a skater I don't care for, I leave it alone.

[rayhaneh]

Wasn't this supposed to be a cheer thread? I always thought it was meant to point out the positives.

Normally if there is a cheer thread about a skater I don't care for, I leave it alone.

I think most people's posts are in reply to the OP which specifically ask people why they don't like (or hate) Morozov

[Sasha'sSpins]

Very little of it, and mainly under 6.0. This, compared to a vast body of cookie cutter (at best) and dreadful to vulgar (at worst) programs. Also, he's ruined Florent Amodio artistically.


Define underage. Soon his daughter will be older than his girlfriends.


He does seem very dedicated, and his at-the-boards antics are quite entertaining. However, it seems to me that his skaters' greater consistency is achieved by constructing programs in such a way that jumping passes are reeled off in a row, with long breaks in between and plenty of posing and lazy choreography. His students do not all have very good technique, and even if they do, he is not a developmental coach, so they would have learned much of it (for better or worse) from someone else.

Javier Fernandez is so much better now than he was with Morozov, both in terms of technical content and in how he's packaged.

If his girlfriends are at the age of consent his daughter's age is irrelevant. I myself don't find the sight of much older men with much younger women (or much older women with much younger men for that matter) very palatable but Morosov is not exactly a senior citizen just yet-and what if he were? Who are we to judge if a younger woman wants to be with him? Thus far his dalliances aren't criminal as far as anyone knows. Just morally a put off I suppose. And as someone upthread pointed out, the age of consent in Russia is 16 - not 18 which is more or less the standard in the States.

I've enjoyed Morosov's choreography in the past for skaters like Yagudin, Cohen and Ando too. Not enamored of his current work but then I'm not much enamored of most choreography under the current COP. It has to be hard for most choreographers under such constraints. There was much more freedom under 6.0.

As to the man-I don't hate him per se. I guess I could say I don't care one way or another for him.

His serial cheating is a big part. I don't think it's just about getting involved with students, but the fact that he or the student is often married. He was supposedly married, and his wife pregnant, when he got involved with Shae-Lynn. Then while married to Shae-Lynn, had an affair with Grushina, while coaching her and her husband. Kind of awkward. With that said, I don't like how others like Zhulin seem to get more of a pass for doing similar things (cheating on Usova with Navka and Grishuk, and I'm pretty sure Mikhailova was still in juniors when he started dating her and I believe he was still married to Navka too). I think Morozov's generally creepy personality and his racist comments make people less inclined to like him.

My main skating issue with him is as an ice dance coach/choreographer. With the singles and pairs, yeah, he mostly sucks, but not always, and he is hardly the only one choreographing empty programs. I have higher standards for dance. So many of his dances were carbon copies of previous ones. GrushGons 2005 FD ripped off L&T's Air/Storm and their 2006 FD ripped of G&P and N&K's The Feeling Begins. GregPets 2006 FD was a ripoff of A&P's Romeo & Juliet. I'm not saying you can never use the same music as another team, but those dances included similar music cuts, choreography, and costumes. It was just lazy.

And it's not much better when he tries to be original. B&K's 2003 FD was like a parody of Russian ice dance, but not meant to be. Then there was I&K's Ave Maria where they waited to reveal it (going so far as to skate it to different music at the Russian test skate) because it was so original... and, well, let's just say there was a reason noone has used it before. And then this year, outdoing himself with Ghost... I mean, they literally have the words "I'm talking to YOU, esse!" in their FD! I just can't!

OT, but I never gave Zhulin a pass. I think he was a real jerk towards Maia. He gave his wedding ring to Grishuk at one point while still married to Usova. Such an in-your-face move designed to hurt Maia was and is reprehensible. No wonder Usova punched Grishuk in the face. I'm not sure I wouldn't either if she were to flaunt her affair with my husband in such an outrageous manner. If Zhulin didn't love Maia anymore fine but he might have divorced her first before cheating on her and allowing Grishuk to rub her affair with Zhulin in Usova's face. No class.

That being said-I think Zhulin and Usova's "Four Seasons" FD is one of the greatest Ice Dance masterpieces EVER. Zhulin's crappy behavior off-ice has never changed my opinion on that score!