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  1. #1

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    IJS jump combo question

    If a skater did a 2Lz, 3 turn at the landing, then a 2T, will that be called 2Lz + 2T or 2Lz + COMBO? Thanks.

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    2Lz + 2T, it is considered a combo if I believe, the freeleg does not touch down on the ice. I am also assuming the skater is doing another 3 turn after the 1st 3turn as the entry to the double toe? So importantly in the short program where they only have one shot at the combo, they would have gotten credit for both the 2Lz and 2T

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltnskater View Post
    2Lz + 2T, it is considered a combo if I believe, the freeleg does not touch down on the ice. I am also assuming the skater is doing another 3 turn after the 1st 3turn as the entry to the double toe? So importantly in the short program where they only have one shot at the combo, they would have gotten credit for both the 2Lz and 2T
    That is mostly correct. If the free foot touches, but there is no weight transfer, it can still be counted as a combination as long as there is not more than 1 revolution on the ice in between the jumps (and you're correct that there would need to be two 3-turns, i.e. a double 3-turn, between the 2Lz and 2T in a combo assuming the 2Lz was landed backwards (which it would be if it was a 2Lz and not a 2Lz<< ). This would be acceptable in both short program and free skating.)

    From page 16 of the 2013-2014 ISU Handbook.

    http://www.usfigureskating.org/conte...%20Singles.pdf

    "Touch down with the free foot without weight transfer

    In case of a touch down with the free foot without weight transfer and up to 2 three turns or no turns between the jumps in a combination, the element remains a jump combination (however Judges will reduce the GOE because of error). In case of more than 1 full revolution on the ice the call will be the jumps performed prior to this revolution + combo in Short Program and + sequence in Free Skating."

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    Quote Originally Posted by RFOS View Post
    That is mostly correct. If the free foot touches, but there is no weight transfer, it can still be counted as a combination as long as there is not more than 1 revolution on the ice in between the jumps (and you're correct that there would need to be two 3-turns, i.e. a double 3-turn, between the 2Lz and 2T in a combo assuming the 2Lz was landed backwards (which it would be if it was a 2Lz and not a 2Lz<< ). This would be acceptable in both short program and free skating.)

    From page 16 of the 2013-2014 ISU Handbook.

    http://www.usfigureskating.org/conte...%20Singles.pdf

    "Touch down with the free foot without weight transfer

    In case of a touch down with the free foot without weight transfer and up to 2 three turns or no turns between the jumps in a combination, the element remains a jump combination (however Judges will reduce the GOE because of error). In case of more than 1 full revolution on the ice the call will be the jumps performed prior to this revolution + combo in Short Program and + sequence in Free Skating."
    Yes, that is actually quite important, probably because once weight has been transferred, it can assist the skater in the second jump, separating the 2 jumps (resulting in a "sequence" but in the short, it would be called combo since that is the required element slot, so they don't lose the entire element values altogether). Without weight transfer, both jumps can probably still be seen as one "unit", and not separated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltnskater View Post
    So importantly in the short program where they only have one shot at the combo, they would have gotten credit for both the 2Lz and 2T
    That's been true until now and will still be true in the FS but no longer in the SP for seniors and junior men. Starting next season, two doubles will no longer be allowed for them in the SP combo, and the skater will only get SP credit for the 2 Lz (as the more difficult jump) with or without the 3-turn.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    That's been true until now and will still be true in the FS but no longer in the SP for seniors and junior men. Starting next season, two doubles will no longer be allowed for them in the SP combo, and the skater will only get SP credit for the 2 Lz (as the more difficult jump) with or without the 3-turn.
    Hmm, that is interesting! I was actually thinking more along novice level and down ( most would be doing triples at junior/senior level in the SP anyways) for the 2Lz + 2T combo.

    Any reason why this rule change overall, and then specific to junior men but not ladies? The combo gets virtually anything anyways since it automatically gets a -3 GOE on it and with the base value already so low, it really doesn't get enough points to begin with.

    It would actually make more sense for rule change to apply to junior ladies in the SP too, since it is there where we see a lot more skaters doing double doubles if they don't have consistent enough triples.

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    (Deleted - post duplicated when editing)
    Last edited by Susan M; 05-24-2014 at 11:54 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ltnskater View Post
    Any reason why this rule change overall, and then specific to junior men but not ladies?
    You are asking us to try to think like the ISU? I'm pretty sure that could result in some permanent brain damage.

    I don't know their reasoning, but over the years they have periodically upped the technical requirements for the SP, sometimes as "may" and sometimes as "must". As you said, I don't think there were any senior level competitors who didn't plan a triple in their combo, so maybe they are just reflecting reality. If there are still a lot of ladies doing 2-2 combinations at the junior level, that is probably why they did not make this change for them. Historically, the SP content rules have followed what skaters were able to do, rather than squeeze folks out with higher content requirements.

  9. #9

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    Double-double combinations are still allowed for junior ladies.

    Junior men, and seniors, are required to do at least one triple in the combination (or quad for senior men), and the other jump must be at least double.

    Until this year, if the short program combination didn't meet the requirements for that level and discipline, the skater earned the base value for whatever jumps he or she did execute, and the GOE was required to be -3.

    Now they're not going to get any base value for the jump with too few rotations according to the requirements.

    Since double-double does meet the requirements for junior ladies, it will still get full base value and whatever GOE it deserves based on quality, not automatic -3.

    But if they did a double-single or triple-single combination, no value for the single and -3 GOE for the combo.

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