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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post

    Instead of setting a minimum score, they should just have X spots available at Euros/4CC/Worlds and invite X highest scored skaters keeping the number per country rule.

    I would open the fields up a little, though. Allow Top 36 singles to compete in the SP (6 warm-up groups) as well as 24 Pairs (6 warm-up groups) and 30 Ice Dance teams (again 6 warm-up groups). But of course that would be too expensive for the organisers so it won't happen. :/
    I came up with an idea along those lines a few months ago. I thought that all Grand Prix Final qualifiers should automatically get a Worlds spot, regardless of country (ie the four Japanese men this year). Then, maybe the top 12 or so at Europeans or 4CC each (in singles, for this instance). That's 30 spots. Then if you wanted to stick to 36 entries, maybe allow the 6 next countries in line in seasons best score without an entry to allow their skater to compete.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Worse than not having minimums to start with?

    Either the minimums truly mean something or they do not. I can see saying: we don't want any skaters at our World Championships who don't meet a certain skill level. But, if you say that, stick to it.

    The problem is that minimum score way of doing things it kind of arbitrary. It's different than saying "no Ladies skaters without at least a Double Axel" which is a minimum you can defend.
    The ISU never said the high minimums were to ensure a certain technical level of skating: they said they set them to eliminate the preliminary round and to limit the number of skaters in the SP. They also said they'd adjust the scores if needed to get the proper field size.

    It was clear from how high the initial scores were that they were aiming high and would adjust lower if need be. There were several ways to do it: by allowing skaters to combine their scores to see if they reached the total of the two individual scores, or to tweak both scores. Every skater entering internationals where s/he had the privilege and support to do so knew s/he might have reached an adjusted score(s) without the competition, and every skater for whom it was practical to attend an international, but chose not to because they guessed the score would not be lowered (or lowered enough), took a gamble. Lowering the scores was a happy bonus for some skaters, a cause for stress, a nail-biter, or any of the above, but they all knew the deal going into the season.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  3. #23
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    These are the scores I've found for this season -- I don't have last year's data -- that didn't meet the old minimums, but meet the new ones:

    Ladies:
    New Nebelhorn Senior Ladies FS Brooklee HAN AUS 47.64
    New Nebelhorn Senior Ladies SP Brooklee HAN AUS 27.72
    New Ice Challenge Senior Ladies SP Kerstin FRANK AUT 26.85
    New NRW Trophy Senior Ladies SP Kerstin FRANK AUT 27.42
    New Ice Challenge Junior Ladies FS Sabrina SCHULZ AUT 46.2
    New European Championships Senior Ladies SP Kaat VAN DAELE BEL 27.16
    New Golden Spin Senior Ladies SP Isadora WILLIAMS BRA 26.7
    New Santa Claus Cup Junior Ladies SP Anna AFONKINA BUL 26.66
    New Volvo Cup 2013 Senior Ladies SP Anna AFONKINA BUL 26.17
    New JGP Zagreb Junior Ladies SP Alaine CHARTRAND CAN 26.22
    New US International Figure Skating Classic Senior Ladies FS Amelie LACOSTE CAN 47.99
    New Skate Canada Senior Ladies SP Amelie LACOSTE CAN 27.84
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Ladies FS Gabrielle DALEMAN CAN 47.21
    New JGP Linz Junior Ladies FS Gabrielle DALEMAN CAN 47.32
    New JGP Linz Junior Ladies SP Gabrielle DALEMAN CAN 26.69
    New JGP Courchevel Junior Ladies SP Julianne SEGUIN CAN 26.57
    New Cup of China Senior Ladies FS Ying ZHANG CHN 46.97
    New Volvo Cup 2013 Senior Ladies SP Ziquan ZHAO CHN 27.05
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Ladies FS Elizaveta UKOLOVA CZE 46.04
    New NRW Trophy Junior Ladies FS Elizaveta UKOLOVA CZE 46.17
    New New Year's Cup 2013 Senior Ladies SP Jana COUFALOVA CZE 26.37
    New Ice Challenge Senior Ladies SP Laura RASZYKOVA CZE 26.86
    New European Championships Senior Ladies SP Anita MADSEN DEN 27.29
    New NRW Trophy Senior Ladies FS Sonia LAFUENTE ESP 46.9
    New US International Figure Skating Classic Senior Ladies FS Elena GLEBOVA EST 46.93
    New Ice Challenge Senior Ladies FS Gerli LIINAMAE EST 47.14
    New Volvo Cup 2013 Senior Ladies SP Svetlana ISSAKOVA EST 26.27
    New Cup of Nice Junior Ladies FS Jenni SAARINEN FIN 47.13
    New Ice Star Junior Ladies SP Jenni SAARINEN FIN 26.24
    New Finlandia Senior Ladies FS Juulia TURKKILA FIN 47.33
    New Cup of Nice Senior Ladies SP Juulia TURKKILA FIN 26.93
    New Nebelhorn Senior Ladies SP Juulia TURKKILA FIN 27.64
    New Cup of Nice Junior Ladies SP Liubov EFIMENKO FIN 27.68
    New Cup of Nice Junior Ladies SP Laurine LECAVELIER FRA 26.55
    New JGP Bled Junior Ladies SP Laurine LECAVELIER FRA 26.69
    New Merano Cup Senior Ladies SP Lenaelle GILLERON GORRY FRA 26.47
    New European Championships Senior Ladies SP Mae Berenice MEITE FRA 27.49
    New Ondrej Nepala Senior Ladies SP Jenna MCCORKELL GBR 27.87
    New Tirnavia Ice Cup Junior Ladies SP Lutricia BOCK GER 26.83
    New Ice Challenge Junior Ladies SP Minami HANASHIRO GER 26.47
    New Warsaw Cup Senior Ladies FS Sandy HOFFMANN GER 47.83
    New New Year's Cup 2013 Senior Ladies SP Sarah HECKEN GER 27.9
    New Golden Spin Senior Ladies FS Carolina KOSTNER ITA 47.37
    New Crystal Skate Senior Ladies SP Roberta RODEGHIERO ITA 27.43
    New Denkova-Staviski Cup Senior Ladies SP Valentina MARCHEI ITA 26.73
    New Golden Spin Senior Ladies SP Valentina MARCHEI ITA 26.73
    New Skate Canada Senior Ladies SP Akiko SUZUKI JPN 26.17
    New JGP Lake Placid Junior Ladies SP Kako TOMOTAKI JPN 26.09
    New Skate Canada Senior Ladies SP Kanako MURAKAMI JPN 27.7
    New JGP Bled Junior Ladies FS Miu SATO JPN 46.88
    New JGP Istanbul Junior Ladies FS Miyabi OBA JPN 46.79
    New Asian FS Trophy Junior Ladies SP Miyahara SATOKO JPN 26.89
    New Jr. Grand Prix Final Junior Ladies SP Satoko MIYAHARA JPN 26.22
    New JGP Linz Junior Ladies FS Yuka NAGAI JPN 46.42
    New Asian FS Trophy Junior Ladies SP Yuka NAGAI JPN 26.9
    New JGP Linz Junior Ladies SP Yuka NAGAI JPN 26.44
    New JGP Istanbul Junior Ladies FS So Youn PARK KOR 47.1
    New European Championships Senior Ladies SP Alina FJODOROVA LAT 26.24
    New Ice Star Junior Ladies SP Aleksandra GOLOVKINA LTU 27.33
    New Warsaw Cup Junior Ladies SP Aleksandra GOLOVKINA LTU 26.99
    New Warsaw Cup Senior Ladies FS Inga JANULEVICIUTE LTU 46.39
    New Warsaw Cup Senior Ladies SP Inga JANULEVICIUTE LTU 27.87
    New Cup of Nice Senior Ladies SP Fleur MAXWELL LUX 27.42
    New Crystal Skate Senior Ladies SP Reyna HAMUI MEX 26.41
    New European Championships Senior Ladies SP Anne Line GJERSEM NOR 26.5
    New NRW Trophy Senior Ladies SP Anne Line GJERSEM NOR 27.71
    New NRW Trophy Senior Ladies FS Kristina ZASEEVA RUS 47.9
    New JGP Zagreb Junior Ladies SP Kristina ZASEEVA RUS 26.21
    New NRW Trophy Senior Ladies SP Kristina ZASEEVA RUS 27.81
    New JGP Linz Junior Ladies SP Maria STAVITSKAYA RUS 26.48
    New European Championships Senior Ladies SP Nikol GOSVIANI RUS 27.71
    New Rostelecom Cup Senior Ladies SP Polina KOROBEYNIKOVA RUS 26.42
    New Trophee Eric Bompard Senior Ladies SP Polina KOROBEYNIKOVA RUS 27.33
    New Ice Star Senior Ladies FS Polina SHELEPEN RUS 47.39
    New Golden Spin Senior Ladies SP Polina SHELEPEN RUS 26.84
    New European Championships Senior Ladies SP Tina STUERZINGER SUI 26.52
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Ladies FS Monika SIMANCIKOVA SVK 46.84
    New European Championships Senior Ladies FS Monika SIMANCIKOVA SVK 46.27
    New Ice Challenge Senior Ladies FS Monika SIMANCIKOVA SVK 47.64
    New European Championships Senior Ladies SP Monika SIMANCIKOVA SVK 27.48
    New NRW Trophy Senior Ladies SP Monika SIMANCIKOVA SVK 26.3
    New Ondrej Nepala Senior Ladies SP Monika SIMANCIKOVA SVK 26.17
    New Ice Challenge Senior Ladies SP Nicole RAJICOVA SVK 26.4
    New Merano Cup Senior Ladies SP Nicole RAJICOVA SVK 27.19
    New Finlandia Senior Ladies SP Isabelle OLSSON SWE 27.49
    New European Championships Senior Ladies FS Viktoria HELGESSON SWE 46.72
    New Nebelhorn Senior Ladies FS Viktoria HELGESSON SWE 47.68
    New European Championships Senior Ladies SP Viktoria HELGESSON SWE 27.88
    New Rostelecom Cup Senior Ladies SP Viktoria HELGESSON SWE 26.67
    New Volvo Cup 2013 Junior Ladies SP Anna HNYCHENKOVA UKR 27.84
    New Warsaw Cup Senior Ladies FS Natalia POPOVA UKR 47.89
    New JGP Linz Junior Ladies SP Natalia POPOVA UKR 26.93
    New NRW Trophy Senior Ladies SP Natalia POPOVA UKR 26.33
    New Warsaw Cup Senior Ladies SP Natalia POPOVA UKR 26.93
    New NHK Trophy Senior Ladies SP Agnes ZAWADZKI USA 27.73
    New Jr. Grand Prix Final Junior Ladies SP Angela WANG USA 26.24
    New Skate Canada Senior Ladies FS Caroline ZHANG USA 46.96
    New Skate Canada Senior Ladies SP Caroline ZHANG USA 27.67
    New Trophee Eric Bompard Senior Ladies SP Christina GAO USA 26.48
    New JGP Lake Placid Junior Ladies SP Courtney HICKS USA 27.85
    New Skate Canada Senior Ladies SP Gracie GOLD USA 27.53
    New JGP Zagreb Junior Ladies SP Hannah MILLER USA 27.88
    New JGP Lake Placid Junior Ladies FS Kiri BAGA USA 46.71
    New Jr. Grand Prix Final Junior Ladies FS Leah KEISER USA 46.21
    New Finlandia Senior Ladies SP Mirai NAGASU USA 26.2
    New Skate America Senior Ladies FS Rachael FLATT USA 47.44
    New JGP Courchevel Junior Ladies SP Vanessa LAM USA 26.92

    SamuraiK did the updated list

    Men:
    New European Championships Senior Men FS Viktor PFEIFER AUT 61.21
    New Ice Challenge Senior Men SP Viktor PFEIFER AUT 33.07
    New European Championships Senior Men FS Pavel IGNATENKO BLR 61.94
    New European Championships Senior Men SP Pavel IGNATENKO BLR 33.38
    New Nebelhorn Senior Men FS Elladj BALDE CAN 62.04
    New Skate Canada Senior Men FS Elladj BALDE CAN 61.56
    New JGP Istanbul Junior Men SP Nam NGUYEN CAN 32.8
    New Jr. Grand Prix Final Junior Men SD Boyang JIN CHN 32.13
    New Trophee Eric Bompard Senior Men FS Jinlin GUAN CHN 61.14
    New Trophee Eric Bompard Senior Men SP Jinlin GUAN CHN 34.44
    New Trophee Eric Bompard Senior Men SP Nan SONG CHN 34.65
    New Nebelhorn Senior Men FS Michal BREZINA CZE 64.13
    New Nebelhorn Senior Men SP Michal BREZINA CZE 32.84
    New Skate America Senior Men SP Michal BREZINA CZE 33.93
    New Merano Cup Senior Men FS Pavel KASKA CZE 61.14
    New JGP Linz Junior Men FS Petr COUFAL CZE 61.59
    New Nebelhorn Senior Men FS Tomas VERNER CZE 62.79
    New Skate America Senior Men FS Tomas VERNER CZE 64.63
    New European Championships Senior Men SP Tomas VERNER CZE 33.27
    New Ondrej Nepala Senior Men SP Tomas VERNER CZE 34.23
    New Volvo Cup 2013 Senior Men SP Viktor ROMANENKOV EST 32.7
    New Trophee Eric Bompard Senior Men FS Brian JOUBERT FRA 62.32
    New Cup of Nice Senior Men FS Chafik BESSEGHIER FRA 63.65
    New Trophee Eric Bompard Senior Men FS Chafik BESSEGHIER FRA 63.82
    New Cup of Nice Junior Men FS Simon HOCQUAUX FRA 60.03
    New NRW Trophy Senior Men FS Denis WIECZOREK GER 61.93
    New NRW Trophy Senior Men SP Denis WIECZOREK GER 33.11
    New NRW Trophy Senior Men FS Franz STREUBEL GER 61.23
    New New Year's Cup 2013 Senior Men FS Franz STREUBEL GER 63.69
    New Ice Challenge Senior Men SP Franz STREUBEL GER 33.73
    New NRW Trophy Senior Men SP Franz STREUBEL GER 33.42
    New Ice Challenge Senior Men FS Martin RAPPE GER 60.4
    New Ice Challenge Senior Men SP Martin RAPPE GER 33.61
    New Warsaw Cup Senior Men SP Paul FENTZ GER 32.23
    New Nebelhorn Senior Men FS Peter LIEBERS GER 62.12
    New Cup of Nice Senior Men SP Peter LIEBERS GER 34.68
    New Volvo Cup 2013 Senior Men FS Ronald LAM HKG 61.68
    New US International Figure Skating Classic Senior Men FS Shiu Ting Ronald LAM HKG 60.21
    New European Championships Senior Men FS Alexei BYCHENKO ISR 60.72
    New Nebelhorn Senior Men FS Alexei BYCHENKO ISR 60.02
    New Ice Star Junior Men SP Matteo RIZZO ITA 32.1
    New Nebelhorn Senior Men FS Paolo BACCHINI ITA 61.49
    New US International Figure Skating Classic Senior Men SP Paul Bonifacio PARKINSON ITA 32.63
    New Ondrej Nepala Senior Men SP Daisuke MURAKAMI JPN 34.45
    New JGP Bled Junior Men SP Keiji TANAKA JPN 32.33
    New JGP Courchevel Junior Men SP Ryuju HINO JPN 33.6
    New JGP Linz Junior Men SP Ryuju HINO JPN 33.41
    New JGP Linz Junior Men SP Sei KAWAHARA JPN 34.66
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Men FS Shoma UNO JPN 60.76
    New JGP Bled Junior Men SP Shoma UNO JPN 32.56
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Men SP Shoma UNO JPN 33.62
    New Grand Prix Final Senior Men SP Tatsuki MACHIDA JPN 34.3
    New Nebelhorn Senior Men SP Denis TEN KAZ 33.59
    New European Championships Senior Men SP Kim LUCINE MON 34.91
    New Ice Challenge Senior Men SP Christopher CALUZA PHI 33.87
    New Cup of Nice Junior Men FS Michael Christian MARTINEZ PHI 62.64
    New Volvo Cup 2013 Senior Men FS Michael Christian MARTINEZ PHI 62.86
    New New Year's Cup 2013 Senior Men FS Michael Christian MARTINEZ PHI 62.48
    New Crystal Skate Senior Men SP Michael Christian MARTINEZ PHI 32.24
    New NRW Trophy Senior Men SP Michael Christian MARTINEZ PHI 32.26
    New European Championships Senior Men FS Maciej CIEPLUCHA POL 60.09
    New Finlandia Senior Men FS Maciej CIEPLUCHA POL 61.31
    New Crystal Skate Senior Men SP Zoltan KELEMEN ROU 33.03
    New JGP Lake Placid Junior Men SP Adian PITKEEV RUS 32.26
    New Volvo Cup 2013 Junior Men SP Aleksander PETROV RUS 33.47
    New JGP Istanbul Junior Men SP Alexander PETROV RUS 33.28
    New JGP Bled Junior Men FS Alexander SAMARIN RUS 62.88
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Men FS Alexander SAMARIN RUS 61.74
    New JGP Bled Junior Men SP Alexander SAMARIN RUS 32.64
    New JGP Linz Junior Men SP Andrei LAZUKIN RUS 32.79
    New JGP Zagreb Junior Men FS Andrei ZUBER RUS 62.36
    New Rostelecom Cup Senior Men FS Artur GACHINSKI RUS 62.79
    New Skate Canada Senior Men FS Artur GACHINSKI RUS 63.4
    New Skate Canada Senior Men SP Artur GACHINSKI RUS 34.14
    New NRW Trophy Junior Men SP Feodosiy EFREMENKOV RUS 33.8
    New Cup of Nice Senior Men FS Mark SHAKHMATOV RUS 64.45
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Men FS Maxim KOVTUN RUS 61.13
    New Cup of Nice Senior Men FS Vladislav SEZGANOV RUS 60
    New Golden Spin Senior Men FS Vladislav SEZGANOV RUS 62.59
    New NRW Trophy Junior Men FS Vladislav SMIRNOV RUS 64.24
    New Volvo Cup 2013 Junior Men SP Vladislav SMIRNOV RUS 33.63
    New Finlandia Senior Men FS Zhan BUSH RUS 60.44
    New European Championships Senior Men FS Stephane WALKER SUI 61.9
    New Ice Challenge Senior Men FS Stephane WALKER SUI 61.22
    New Finlandia Senior Men FS Adrian SCHULTHEISS SWE 60.28
    New Skate America Senior Men FS Alexander MAJOROV SWE 61.02
    New NRW Trophy Senior Men FS Dmitriy IGNATENKO UKR 63.09
    New Ice Star Junior Men FS Ivan PAVLOV UKR 62.72
    New Ice Star Senior Men FS Yakov GODOROZHA UKR 62.73
    New European Championships Senior Men SP Yakov GODOROZHA UKR 32.76
    New Ice Star Senior Men SP Yakov GODOROZHA UKR 33.76
    New Cup of China Senior Men FS Adam RIPPON USA 61.81
    New JGP Zagreb Junior Men FS Harrison CHOATE USA 60.28
    New JGP Zagreb Junior Men SP Harrison CHOATE USA 34.26
    New JGP Istanbul Junior Men FS Jason BROWN USA 63.35
    New JGP Istanbul Junior Men SP Jason BROWN USA 33.27
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Men SP Jay YOSTANTO USA 33.14
    New Trophee Eric Bompard Senior Men FS Jeremy ABBOTT USA 63.75
    New Rostelecom Cup Senior Men SP Richard DORNBUSH USA 33.11
    New US International Figure Skating Classic Senior Men SP Ross MINER USA 34.1
    New Nebelhorn Senior Men SP Stephen CARRIERE USA 33.1
    New US International Figure Skating Classic Senior Men SP Timothy DOLENSKY USA 32.6
    New Denkova-Staviski Cup Senior Men FS Misha GE UZB 63.74
    New Finlandia Senior Men FS Misha GE UZB 61.76
    New Golden Spin Senior Men FS Misha GE UZB 63.74
    New Ice Challenge Senior Men SP Misha GE UZB 33.34

    Pairs:
    New NRW Trophy Senior Pairs FS Angelina EKATERININA / Philipp TARASOV AZE 41.51
    New European Championships Senior Pairs FS Elizaveta MAKAROVA / Leri KENCHADZE BUL 43.06
    New Nesquick Cup Senior Pairs SP Elizaveta MAKAROVA / Leri KENCHADZE BUL 24.33
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Pairs FS Brittany JONES / Ian BEHARRY CAN 44.02
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Pairs SP Brittany JONES / Ian BEHARRY CAN 25.3
    New Jr. Grand Prix Final Junior Pairs SP Brittany JONES / Ian BEHARRY CAN 24.23
    New JGP Linz Junior Pairs FS Hayleigh BELL / Alistair SYLVESTER CAN 43.81
    New JGP Zagreb Junior Pairs FS Hayleigh BELL / Alistair SYLVESTER CAN 43.08
    New JGP Zagreb Junior Pairs SP Hayleigh BELL / Alistair SYLVESTER CAN 25.34
    New JGP Lake Placid Junior Pairs SP Margaret PURDY / Michael MARINARO CAN 24.2
    New JGP Zagreb Junior Pairs SP Margaret PURDY / Michael MARINARO CAN 26.26
    New Jr. Grand Prix Final Junior Pairs SP Margaret PURDY / Michael MARINARO CAN 26.26
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Pairs FS Natasha PURICH / Sebastien ARCIERI CAN 43.34
    New Rostelecom Cup Senior Pairs SP Paige LAWRENCE / Rudi SWIEGERS CAN 25.85
    New Skate Canada Senior Pairs SP Paige LAWRENCE / Rudi SWIEGERS CAN 25.9
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Pairs FS Shalena RAU / Phelan SIMPSON CAN 43.02
    New JGP Lake Placid Junior Pairs FS Shalena RAU / Phelan SIMPSON CAN 43.79
    New Cup of China Senior Pairs SP Wenting WANG / Yan ZHANG CHN 27.47
    New JGP Linz Junior Pairs SP Xiaoyu YU / Yang JIN CHN 25.9
    New Jr. Grand Prix Final Junior Pairs SP Xiaoyu YU / Yang JIN CHN 27.83
    New Nebelhorn Senior Pairs FS Daria POPOVA / Bruno MASSOT FRA 44.93
    New Nebelhorn Senior Pairs SP Daria POPOVA / Bruno MASSOT FRA 26.53
    New Skate Canada Senior Pairs SP Daria POPOVA / Bruno MASSOT FRA 25.53
    New Trophee Eric Bompard Senior Pairs SP Vanessa JAMES / Morgan CIPRES FRA 26.04
    New European Championships Senior Pairs FS Stacey KEMP / David KING GBR 44.77
    New European Championships Senior Pairs SP Stacey KEMP / David KING GBR 25.24
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Pairs FS Annabelle PRÖLß / Ruben BLOMMAERT GER 42.94
    New JGP Lake Placid Junior Pairs FS Annabelle PRÖLß / Ruben BLOMMAERT GER 41.11
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Pairs SP Annabelle PRÖLß / Ruben BLOMMAERT GER 26.98
    New NRW Trophy Junior Pairs SP Annabelle PRÖLß / Ruben BLOMMAERT GER 25.16
    New Warsaw Cup Junior Pairs SP Annabelle PRÖLß / Ruben BLOMMAERT GER 26.74
    New NRW Trophy Senior Pairs FS Mari VARTMANN / Aaron VAN CLEAVE GER 44.31
    New Ice Challenge Senior Pairs SP Danielle MONTALBANO / Evgeni KRASNOPOLSKI ISR 24.07
    New Nesquick Cup Junior Pairs SP Giulia FORESTI / Leoluca SFORZA ITA 25.73
    New Ondrej Nepala Senior Pairs FS Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA 41.13
    New European Championships Senior Pairs SP Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA 26.11
    New Rostelecom Cup Senior Pairs SP Nicole DELLA MONICA / Matteo GUARISE ITA 27.21
    New Ondrej Nepala Senior Pairs SP Stefania BERTON / Ondrej HOTAREK ITA 27.8
    New Ondrej Nepala Senior Pairs SP Anastasia MARTIUSHEVA / Alexei ROGONOV RUS 25.64
    New Rostelecom Cup Senior Pairs SP Anastasia MARTIUSHEVA / Alexei ROGONOV RUS 26.7
    New Warsaw Cup Junior Pairs FS Arina CHERNIAVSKAYA / Antonio LAUDELINO RUS 41.64
    New NRW Trophy Junior Pairs FS Arina CHERNYAVSKAYA / Antonio CORDEYRO RUS 43.91
    New NRW Trophy Junior Pairs SP Arina CHERNYAVSKAYA / Antonio CORDEYRO RUS 24.88
    New JGP Lake Placid Junior Pairs FS Kamilla GAINETDINOVA / Ivan BICH RUS 42.63
    New JGP Zagreb Junior Pairs SP Kamilla GAINETDINOVA / Ivan BICH RUS 27
    New Nesquick Cup Junior Pairs FS Kamilla GAYNETDINOVA / Ivan BICH RUS 44.71
    New Cup of China Senior Pairs SP Ksenia STOLBOVA / Fedor KLIMOV RUS 27.85
    New Cup of Nice Senior Pairs SP Ksenia STOLBOVA / Fedor KLIMOV RUS 24.14
    New European Championships Senior Pairs SP Ksenia STOLBOVA / Fedor KLIMOV RUS 26.54
    New Trophee Eric Bompard Senior Pairs SP Ksenia STOLBOVA / Fedor KLIMOV RUS 26.43
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Pairs SP Maria VIGALOVA / Egor ZAKROEV RUS 25.62
    New JGP Linz Junior Pairs SP Maria VIGALOVA / Egor ZAKROEV RUS 27
    New Jr. Grand Prix Final Junior Pairs SP Maria VIGALOVA / Egor ZAKROEV RUS 26.83
    New JGP Lake Placid Junior Pairs SP Vasilisa DAVANKOVA / Andrei DEPUTAT RUS 27.16
    New JGP Zagreb Junior Pairs SP Vasilisa DAVANKOVA / Andrei DEPUTAT RUS 27.44
    New Jr. Grand Prix Final Junior Pairs SP Vasilisa DAVANKOVA / Andrei DEPUTAT RUS 27.52
    New Cup of Nice Senior Pairs SP Vasilisa DAVANKOVA / Andreï DEPUTAT RUS 26.46
    New Nebelhorn Senior Pairs SP Vera BAZAROVA / Yuri LARIONOV RUS 27.37
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Pairs FS Britney SIMPSON / Matthew BLACKMER USA 43.91
    New JGP Linz Junior Pairs FS Britney SIMPSON / Matthew BLACKMER USA 43.01
    New JGP Chemnitz Junior Pairs SP Britney SIMPSON / Matthew BLACKMER USA 24.58
    New JGP Linz Junior Pairs SP Jessica CALALANG / Zack SIDHU USA 25.49
    New JGP Zagreb Junior Pairs SP Madeline AARON / Max SETTLAGE USA 24.21
    New Skate Canada Senior Pairs SP Tiffany VISE / Don BALDWIN USA 24.41
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  4. #24
    YEAH!
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    Any insight as to why the ISU would announce this now and not wait until 4CC is done?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Any insight as to why the ISU would announce this now and not wait until 4CC is done?
    Maybe to give training time to the skaters who thought they wouldn't be going to worlds?

  6. #26
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    YAY!

    I've just realised that the new minimums mean that Cieplucha and Makarova/Kenchadze can go to Worlds.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post

    Yeah, because it would be much better if they didn't lower the scores and excluded a number of skaters.

    Once the minimum scores were announced, ISU did say that they were subject to change depending on how many skaters managed to reach them.
    Not that I am against lowering the minimum scores. I just don't like the way they set rules and policies to their taste.

    Rather than changing them in the middle of a season, they should have been more careful in deciding that kind of stuff from the beginning.

    Flexibility? I wil call it lack of consistency.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ehdtkqorl123 View Post
    Not that I am against lowering the minimum scores. I just don't like the way they set rules and policies to their taste.

    Rather than changing them in the middle of a season, they should have been more careful in deciding that kind of stuff from the beginning.

    Flexibility? I wil call it lack of consistency.
    Again: You cannot expect the ISU to be able to predict the future.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Any insight as to why the ISU would announce this now and not wait until 4CC is done?
    The ISU had previously announced that they would confirm the minimum score requirements about 2 weeks before the entry deadline of the respective ISU Championship -- see: http://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/show...=1#post3784552

    From the 2013 Worlds Announcement: http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=3685
    In accordance with Rule 378, ISU Members must enter Competitors and their substitutes on the official entry forms. Entries must reach the Chair of the ISU Sports Directorate, the ISU Secretariat and the Organizing Committee not later than February 17, 2013 – 20:00 hrs, local time London, ON (see Rule 378, paragraph 1). Entries must be made by the Member concerned. Receipt of the entries will be confirmed in writing.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 02-04-2013 at 10:54 PM. Reason: To add link
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    YAY!

    I've just realised that the new minimums mean that Cieplucha and Makarova/Kenchadze can go to Worlds.
    I think Cieplucha already had the score before it was lowered!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    It doesn't make them stupid. You can't expect ISU (or anybody else) to predict the future.
    Actually, if IJS scores are supposed to be absolute and they know the level of skating that is out there, it seems like they should be able to pick a minimum that will give them the field they want within 1-3 entries.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    The ISU never said the high minimums were to ensure a certain technical level of skating: they said they set them to eliminate the preliminary round and to limit the number of skaters in the SP..
    Ah, I thought I read right here on FSU that this was why they were setting them. They were saying something about making their product attractive to tv by ensuring a certain level of skating at Championship events.

    It's true that if the goal was to set the fields to a certain amount, having minimums and adjusting them right before the championships lets you do that. OTOH, I really don't think it's fair to the athletes. They have to guess what the ISU will do and make decisions that can't be undone based on those guesses. I prefer a system where they make their decisions based on rules that everyone knows ahead of time, that don't change, and are the same for everyone. The ISU has been notorious in the past for not doing any of that so I'm somewhat unwilling to give them a break on this one now. I feel for the teams who guessed wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Ah, I thought I read right here on FSU that this was why they were setting them. They were saying something about making their product attractive to tv by ensuring a certain level of skating at Championship events.
    They certainly said that when they instituted the GP minimums and seemed more concerned about the qualify of skaters in GP than Worlds, especially since last year's championship TES minimums were lower or equal to this year's Euros/4C's minimums. In this year's announcement of the increase in TES and adding them for Jr. Worlds as well, they made it a zero sum game, "You voted to eliminate Preliminary rounds? We'll just raise those Worlds scores so high so we don't need them, and you won't know what hit you." This was a lose/lose the smaller Federations who voted against the proposal to eliminate prelims.

    For anyone who was watching -- all they needed to do was follow the public thread in GSD with the great lists that SamuraiK and haribobo compiled -- they could see that the number of skaters and teams in Ladies, Men, and Pairs was lower than an Olympic field, and it was likely that the ISU would lower the scores to have their target field size. (No guarantees, but likely.) In Dance, there were enough teams making it, despite the daunting minimums.

    It's not like they needed to crunch any numbers or assemble data, although this is something the ISU should be supporting on its website, IMO. Even if it's raw data, rather than capturing just essential data, like the PB list, it would be useful.

    It would have been awful if they had set the minimums too low, and had to tell skaters, "Sorry, you're not going" after they had made the original targets.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 02-04-2013 at 11:39 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler View Post
    I think Cieplucha already had the score before it was lowered!
    I thought he had the SP score but was missing the FS one (or the other way round) but maybe I remembered it wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Actually, if IJS scores are supposed to be absolute and they know the level of skating that is out there, it seems like they should be able to pick a minimum that will give them the field they want within 1-3 entries.
    Skaters will keep improving though and more and more will be reaching the minimums over time. It's not something that's constant, you never know how things will unfold. I think ISU was a little conservative with the Worlds scores, not realising how many skaters will miss them.

    As kwanfan has pointed out, the reason why the minimum scores were introduced is because ISU Championships organisers could not afford to pay for so many skaters. That's the reason why they are flexible. So that they don't keep too many skaters away but also don't result in a situation where you get too many entries.

    I personally think they should just go with top 30 (or whatever other number) and scrap them altogether. The top 30 list would be announced like a couple of days before the entry deadline or something.

    Although as kwanfan says, that could be quite tough for the skaters who could only find out in the last moment that somebody jumped in front of them pushing them about of the top 30. So the current system might be the best we can get.
    Last edited by Ziggy; 02-05-2013 at 12:37 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler View Post
    I came up with an idea along those lines a few months ago. I thought that all Grand Prix Final qualifiers should automatically get a Worlds spot, regardless of country (ie the four Japanese men this year). Then, maybe the top 12 or so at Europeans or 4CC each (in singles, for this instance). That's 30 spots. Then if you wanted to stick to 36 entries, maybe allow the 6 next countries in line in seasons best score without an entry to allow their skater to compete.

    This is an amazing idea and I love it. It could use some tweaks, but generally yes! There's no reason that certain skaters shouldn't be able to compete at world's just cause they're from a certain country!

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post

    It's not like they needed to crunch any numbers or assemble data, although this is something the ISU should be supporting on its website, IMO.
    They do, but only for

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    It would have been awful if they had set the minimums too low, and had to tell skaters, "Sorry, you're not going" after they had made the original targets.
    But this was also an option no? How horrible for some skaters not knowing all season for sure if they can go to Worlds or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler View Post
    I came up with an idea along those lines a few months ago. I thought that all Grand Prix Final qualifiers should automatically get a Worlds spot, regardless of country (ie the four Japanese men this year). Then, maybe the top 12 or so at Europeans or 4CC each (in singles, for this instance). That's 30 spots. Then if you wanted to stick to 36 entries, maybe allow the 6 next countries in line in seasons best score without an entry to allow their skater to compete.
    Yes! Maybe even go with 'all those that medalled at the Gand Prix Series' That'll save alot of heartaches for us Japanese fans for the mens discipline

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarrellH View Post
    Jenna McCorkell looks to be really busy.

    I tease. Thank you for putting that list together.
    OOps.. I'll fix it right away

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    Quote Originally Posted by ioana View Post
    I'm pretty sure Denmark should be able to sent Anita Madsen SP 27.29 at Euros, LP 49.66 at Nordics.
    I know they let skters from non scandinavian countries compete in seniors but isn't nordics still a regional/selective event and therefore does not count for scores like the Universiade?? Thats why I let Madsen out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiK View Post
    I know they let skters from non scandinavian countries compete in seniors but isn't nordics still a regional/selective event and therefore does not count for scores like the Universiade?? Thats why I let Madsen out.
    Skaters that achieved minimum scores at the 2012 Nordics had their scores counted, so I think it would be the same this year.

    Ziggy- Cieplucha had the LP score from Worlds 2012 and hit the SP mark at the Warsaw Cup at the end of 2012

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    Quote Originally Posted by SamuraiK View Post
    I know they let skters from non scandinavian countries compete in seniors but isn't nordics still a regional/selective event and therefore does not count for scores like the Universiade?? Thats why I let Madsen out.
    They usually list the ones that are restricted for minimum score purposes, but according to the ISU site, "Remark: Novice only for Nordic Members." Ladies from RUS, UKR, USA, FIN, LUX, EST, and ESP competed this year, and Lipniskaia got Senior B points, so it should be good for WS. Last year, Ladies from EST, TPE, JPN, competed last year with FIN and SWE, so these should be fine. Asian Trophy and Youth Olympic Games count, too.
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