02-19-2013, 04:10 PM
Originally Posted by briancoogaert
Check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=NPVEozgJSGw (2009 TEB Mao & Yuna)
02-19-2013, 04:15 PM
- Rep Power
Yuna's edges were better at Vancouver, though Mao’s edges are getting there, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln6Y2ppJiaw (a comparion of Bells and Swan Lake)
But I still think that the score at Torino Worlds was out of line.
02-19-2013, 04:50 PM
I prefer Mao's spins, lines, and footwork. However, in Vancouver, it was quite obvious that Yuna's speed and depth of edge were superior to Mao. Just compare their spiral sequences. Mao's look way better, but Yu Na's coverage of the ice is far superior. Mao lost a lot of speed.
02-19-2013, 05:29 PM
I agree. Yuna used to have better skating skills than Mao, but not any more. Mao came to Nobuo Sato to improve her jumps, but he made her work on her basic skating first and the difference is very noticeable I think. Yuna, on the other hand, remained on her previous level at best so they are much closer in that aspect now than in 2009.
Originally Posted by sonya71
02-20-2013, 02:52 PM
This is how I like it.
The difference between figure skating fan and a certain skater's über fan
So come to the topic, for the three incredible young ladies, I think Yuna has the total package, Mao is the most elegant and has the best spiral and spin positions and the most exciting/best step sequences, and I like Caro's ability to gain speed with almost no crossovers, especially in her LP this year. I think Mao's advantage in steps is that she has good control, fast , clean and smooth changes of edges and directions. Yuna and Caro's s jumps are more powerful. Mao's jumps were very light and effortless, she's gradually getting there now.
All have the ability to challenge but I believe it will be still mainly between Yuna and Mao, my two favorite skaters.
Mao's skating skills improved greatly after 2010 and is now on par with Yuna. I'm over the coach splitting/firing chaos now and I can enjoy Yuna's skating again.
I believe Yuna is Mao's best motivator. look at what Mao did at 4CC, and I'm so excited going to World.
I have never had the honor to watch all the ladies live together and I will really cherish this opportunity and see with my own eyes how they play off live vs on TV.
Good luck everybody !
Last edited by skatingfanfun; 02-21-2013 at 12:29 AM.
02-21-2013, 05:06 AM
I disagree with Yuna having the entire package.. doesn't the entire package include nice looking positions?
02-21-2013, 07:02 AM
The oft-repeated statement that Yuna is the "complete package" is, IMO, correct.
Originally Posted by AndyWarhol
-When a Michelle Kwan or a Peggy Fleming evince such a view, it generally means that the skater has the skills to score highly in all the major elements and components being judged. Their opinions therefore include the (quite factual) premise that Yuna's spirals/spins/positions will score well. People like Michelle and Peggy assume as a matter of course that it is understood that skating is first and foremost a competitive pursuit, and that therefore notions such as "complete package" make communally verifiable sense only in this context.
-AFAIK, there is no explicit bullet point for "nice looking" (or even an official definition).
-To say (as Michelle and Peggy, and many others, have done) that Yuna is the complete package is not necessarily to say that she is perfect. It is merely stating what should be obvious: Yuna has no glaring weaknesses from an objective, competitive perspective, despite offending the personal table of values of some of her critics.
02-21-2013, 07:10 AM
Is a spiral not meant to be done with a straight leg?
02-21-2013, 12:01 PM
How much is a "straight" leg worth? In other words, if the presence/absence of the feature does not materially affect the skater's prospects for competitive success, then equally it does not materially determine whether or not she is the "complete package".
Originally Posted by AndyWarhol
When one goes too much beyond what the rules reward/punish in terms of what one chooses to emphasize or hold dear, it enters the realm of the deeply personal. An extreme example to illustrate the point: I might say that a spin is not a spin unless the skater does it with a cup of hot tea balanced on her head. If this feature were considered fundamental to the sport, then it would be meaningfully incorporated into the scoring criteria. It if has, ah, minimal impact, then I am forced to conclude that a skater is not disqualified as a "complete package" without it.
02-21-2013, 12:31 PM
Very logic and precise points, Robeye.
Yet, I think AndyWharol should have phrased differently, like: "Yuna has no classic/balletic positions", rather than "no nice looking positions". How can you say that her Ina bauer, for instance, is ugly? Actually you can take any of the photos taken from her performances and appreciate the shapes of her body so in tune with the artistic content of the music . Of course some don’t like them, but there are lot of people who finds them wonderful, so it’s hard to state "She has ugly positions" as a fact, unless you add "to me". It’s like saying "Beethoven’s Fifth symphony is ugly, because I don’t like it" (for the record, I don’t like it ). Beethoven is considered one of the best composers ever and it’s undeniable that his music has at least an objective value/quality, even if some don’t love it. The same can be applied to Yu-Na’s skating, I think.
02-21-2013, 01:01 PM
This statement makes me a little curious. Because I wouldn’t say that before 2010 Mao Asada’s skills were not good. Take her programs from 2008 Worlds for instance. They show a tremendous amount of skill. Maybe the point is that after 2008 Worlds the emphasis was put so much on Mao’s jumping ability that the skating skills received less attention. Maybe the program that fans generally refers to is the Olympic FS, which didn’t look very convincing as a general impression although was executed with some expression. There wasn’t much speed, deep edges, flow, complexity, etc. But good skating skills were already there before 2010.
Originally Posted by skatingfanfun
Now a more personal opinion that will probably sound weird, especially to those who love the Swan Lake program. We all know that after 2010 her skating suffered in some respects, but right now I actually don’t see all the great progress that is often mentioned. There might have been a progress, of course, but not that dramatic. If we want to make a comparison with Yu-Na, as skatingfanfun did, I still think the latter has more speed and edges and shows a steadiness and confidence that Mao still lacks. Probably this Swan Lake will look better at Worlds, although I have some doubts giving that Mao is back in training difficult jumps at full engine, in the clear and anxious convinction that it's the only way to surpass her rival, so we might see a repetition of the Olympics, only this time her program will look much prettier and attractive.
02-21-2013, 03:47 PM
A more pressing question for me is: What about the lack of centering on some of Kostner's spins?
The judges give her 1s and 2s for spins that travel and sometimes rock. I don't believe this is a personal taste issue. Shouldn't it be deducted from Kostner's TES?
Last edited by TheIronLady; 02-21-2013 at 04:36 PM.
02-21-2013, 03:49 PM
How can Yu Na be the complete package if she is lacking a 3Lo?
02-21-2013, 04:01 PM
LOL, and how can Yu Na be the complete package if she is lacking spread eagle ?
02-21-2013, 04:11 PM
How do you define "nice looking"? If you mean aesthetically pleasing to the eyes, then oh my, Yuna certainly has nice looking positions out on the ice. I could post links to hundreds of photos, but I will abstain
Originally Posted by AndyWarhol
02-21-2013, 05:08 PM
Yes, I'm sure you can.
Originally Posted by Shaia
02-21-2013, 05:16 PM
How can Yuna be the complete package if she is lacking a boyfriend?
02-21-2013, 05:29 PM
Is she lacking??? Why? She is beautiful! And Has Mao boyfriend?
Originally Posted by FunnyBut
02-21-2013, 05:34 PM
Okay, you made me do this: how can she be considered a complete package if she's lacking a Pooh tissue box?
FWIW, I don't think any of the three should be considered a "complete skater", and I find the subject silly. The whole point is that they have different strengths and weaknesses, and different fans will emphasize certain characteristics over others, thus affecting how each is perceived.
02-21-2013, 05:52 PM
We are in agreement on something, again...
Originally Posted by Zemgirl