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  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by kathy sullivan View Post
    I really don't understand Kostner's appeal. YuNa and Mao seem in a whole other class. Kostner has never skated performance that has impressed me. I know her jumps can be great when she is on, and she can obvisously rack up COP points, but the rest of her performance is usually eh for me. Never saw a performance of hers that inspiried me, certainly never saw one I'd watch twice.
    Bolero. Sure, it has many empty spots like long jump set ups but the part from step sequence, choreo sequence to the last 3 salchow, just soars the climax I've not liked her programs that much except Canon SP, but this Bolero is really something special.

    Quote Originally Posted by oleada View Post
    See, I don't see it. I think that is where artistry as a subjective thing comes in Like many others in this thread, I think Yu-Na's best programs were Lark Ascending and Tango de Roxanne back in 2007. I remember seeing her SP at 2007 Worlds, being completely wowed and amazed at how much artistic potential she had. Sadly, that's where it began and ended for me. Danse Macabre came close. Bond Girl was a cheap imitation of that. Der Fliedermaus, Miss Saigon, Scheherezade & Gershwin were, imo, generic and rather forgettable. I honestly have no memory of Yu-Na's Olympic LP except that it was clean. I think she's a good performer - but that's about it.

    BTW - I know we disagree, but I appreciate you taking your time to explain your opinions and really think it through so nicely
    I totally understand people's longing for her programs from 2006-07 season. They were that good.


    I agree with Jackie Wong's point in that article. Confidence is Mao's biggest strength right now. If that Swan Lake or I've Got Rhythm program was to be skated by others, they wouldn't have come alive so beautifully. This season, it just shows that she is fully confident of herself, selling those programs.


    You know, IMO it's all about mojo. Carolina has hers after winning the first world title--look at her recent interviews and performances-- increasing her chance of doing better than great in Sochi, Mao has hers by getting back 3A and her ultimate goal of becoming OGM sure adds something to that.
    But when it comes to Yuna, it's a bit of an enigma. She wants to compete almost solely for the future of Korea's figure skating and partially not to have regrets. Would it be enough for her to get fully motivated when you have already achieved everything in your career? Fierce competitors like Plushy and Katarina could do that but Yuna doesn't seem like a person who is all about winning. Could this turn around if she starts winning in big competitions, rediscovering that fire she had?

  2. #122
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    But when it comes to Yuna, it's a bit of an enigma. She wants to compete almost solely for the future of Korea's figure skating and partially not to have regrets. Would it be enough for her to get fully motivated when you have already achieved everything in your career? Fierce competitors like Plushy and Katarina could do that but Yuna doesn't seem like a person who is all about winning. Could this turn around if she starts winning in big competitions, rediscovering that fire she had?
    L'etoile, you speak as though Yuna has already faltered in a major way. Whether Yuna's desire to win is strong enough, or even what her motivations are exactly, as a matter of fact, seems like a topic of speculation more suitable in a situation where a skater hugely and unexpectedly bombed. The fact that she seemed as if she ran through her programs perfunctorily at NRW or did not show the full glow of her usual charisma at the Korean Nationals is reason enough in this forum to portray her like an injured lion or a 'has been.' The (imaginary) smell of blood seems to attract all sorts of agenda-driven comments that are essentially confabulations, such as she is not artistic, and she never was, or all her programs were 'forgettable' except the two in her senior debut year, and what not? I am not saying you are one of the confabulators, btw. I really have only one word to say: JEALOUSY.
    Last edited by theguitarist; 02-14-2013 at 01:48 PM.

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by theguitarist View Post
    You speak as though Yuna has already faltered in a major way. Whether Yuna's desire to win is strong enough, or even what her motivations are exactly, as a matter of fact, seems like a topic of speculation more suitable in a situation where a skater hugely and unexpectedly bombed. The fact that she seemed as if she ran through her programs perfunctorily at NRW or did not show the full glow of her usual charisma at the Korean Nationals is reason enough in this forum to portray her like an injured lion or a 'has been.' The (imaginary) smell of blood seems to attract all sorts of agenda-driven comments that are essentially confabulations, such as she is not artistic, and she never was, or all her programs were 'forgettable' except the two in her senior debut year, and what not? I am not saying you are one of the confabulators, btw. I really have only one word to say: JEALOUSY.
    well with your 12 year old arguments you will surely win everyone over. Yes it's just jealousy

  4. #124

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    Quote Originally Posted by theguitarist View Post
    L'etoile, you speak as though Yuna has already faltered in a major way. Whether Yuna's desire to win is strong enough, or even what her motivations are exactly, as a matter of fact, seems like a topic of speculation more suitable in a situation where a skater hugely and unexpectedly bombed. The fact that she seemed as if she ran through her programs perfunctorily at NRW or did not show the full glow of her usual charisma at the Korean Nationals is reason enough in this forum to portray her like an injured lion or a 'has been.' The (imaginary) smell of blood seems to attract all sorts of agenda-driven comments that are essentially confabulations, such as she is not artistic, and she never was, or all her programs were 'forgettable' except the two in her senior debut year, and what not? I am not saying you are one of the confabulators, btw. I really have only one word to say: JEALOUSY.
    Wow...

    Listen, I understand blind fandom. I started out on the internet as a 16 year-old crazy Kwan fan (and still am a huge Kwan fan), but one should learn some objectivity and understand that just because not everyone agrees with your opinion does not make them completely wrong. Some things can't be argued (like if someone said Kim's Triple Lutz is horrible...we have video proof that it certainly does not). However, just because someone doesn't buy the fact that Kim is an absolute artist or that her body is one with the music doesn't make them jealous or have some sort of agenda.

    People like what they like. It's also a dangerous when you start accusing people of jealousy and having an agenda because the other side can easily turn that around and talk about blind devotion and love (and possibly immaturity plus patriotism) clouding one's judgment.

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    No one likes to be told they are acting out of jealousy, I know. But, jealousy is a fact of life.

  6. #126

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    You never cease to amaze me, theguitarist. But how you manage to take things to another level as usual Yunabots do is nothing new.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by l'etoile View Post
    You never cease to amaze me, theguitarist. But how you manage to take things to another level as usual Yunabots do is nothing new.
    If not giving myself to convoluted arguments with a veneer of pseudo-objectivity for a foregone conclusion that yuna is not all that she is made out to be and having the honesty to call it jealousy makes me a yunabot, so be it. While you are at it, please make me the capitain of the yunabots, you seem to have the power.

  8. #128

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    Quote Originally Posted by theguitarist View Post
    If not giving myself to convoluted arguments with a veneer of pseudo-objectivity for a foregone conclusion that yuna is not all that she is made out to be and having the honesty to call it jealousy makes me a yunabot, so be it. While you are at it, please make me the capitain of the yunabots, you seem to have the power.
    Well let's see, so far you refuse to engage in any type of discussion. Many thoughtful posters have given their assessments of the comparative skill of these three ladies, referring to both their technical accomplishments, and referred to criteria that make up the PCS mark and given assessments of that.

    You have said - I'm not going to argue. Yuna is star. Anyone who disagrees is just jealous !!!!!LOLZ!!!!ELEVENTY!!!!

    So you can see why people are not taking you seriuosly and dismiss you as a bot.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by l'etoile View Post
    Sorry to say this but all I see from (seemingly) Yuna fans' posts are just saying Yuna is better no matter what, even insulting the posters who actually gave thought-out opinions. What about giving reasonable analysis to support your arguments?
    I simply said "yes" to a question posted by the person who started this trash can thread whether Yuna can still beat Mao if Mao skates clean or hits majority of her jumps. How on earth is that an insult to any other poster? Who is insulting who here? And "reasonable analysis to support your arguments"?? LMAO. All I see here in this trash can thread is fans offering their completely subjective (and inevitably biased) views. And had I given my two-page essay of a "reasonable analysis", would that have changed your mind to appreciate Yuna's skating more??? Or would you have disregarded it as another blind worship of Queen Yuna?

  10. #130

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaia View Post
    I simply said "yes" to a question posted by the person who started this trash can thread whether Yuna can still beat Mao if Mao skates clean or hits majority of her jumps. How on earth is that an insult to any other poster? Who is insulting who here? And "reasonable analysis to support your arguments"?? LMAO. All I see here in this trash can thread is fans offering their completely subjective (and inevitably biased) views. And had I given my two-page essay of a "reasonable analysis", would that have changed your mind to appreciate Yuna's skating more??? Or would you have disregarded it as another blind worship of Queen Yuna?
    I didn't say it was you who insulted However, you clearly added your opinion when you said "quality over quantity." In what sense? You were basically implying that Mao lacks in quality which was left unsupported. I or any others here do not demand objective views. That's an impossible territory for this sport. Subjective or not, when you say something, it will earn much more agreement/understanding when "reasons" were given. It surely helps the discussion, doesn't it?

  11. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Well let's see, so far you refuse to engage in any type of discussion. Many thoughtful posters have given their assessments of the comparative skill of these three ladies, referring to both their technical accomplishments, and referred to criteria that make up the PCS mark and given assessments of that.

    You have said - I'm not going to argue. Yuna is star. Anyone who disagrees is just jealous !!!!!LOLZ!!!!ELEVENTY!!!!

    So you can see why people are not taking you seriuosly and dismiss you as a bot.
    Listen, I just don't like the tone in this thread where half of the posters are just taking a swipe at Yuna in their long-winded, seemingly 'thoughtful' posts, as though indeed they were making an 'objective assessment' or presenting their snarky comments as a matter of 'personal taste.' Too much bad faith, too much venom. I have no problem with real (constructive) criticism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by theguitarist View Post
    Listen, I just don't like the tone in this thread where half of the posters are just taking a swipe at Yuna in their long-winded, seemingly 'thoughtful' posts, as though indeed they were making an 'objective assessment' or presenting their snarky comments as a matter of 'personal taste.' Too much bad faith, too much venom. I have no problem with real (constructive) criticism.
    Nobody said anything hurtful about Yuna. I don't know why you are taking this all personal. I don't know what you are doing here if you don't like other people opinons on your favorite(probably your country's hero).

  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    Nobody said anything hurtful about Yuna. I don't know why you are taking this all personal. I don't know what you are doing here if you don't like other people opinons on your favorite(probably your country's hero).
    Feel free to disagree with me, Maybe you're right, maybe I'm overreacting. But, please don't get cute. I don't wonder if you are from Papua New Guinea or if you are gay. Let's keep this discussion where it belongs, shall we?

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by theguitarist View Post
    Let's keep this discussion where it belongs, shall we?
    It appears the type of discussion you want to have about Yu-Na doesn't belong in this forum, which is called Figure Skating Universe, where diverse figure skating fans from all around the world share their varying opinions and interests about a wide assortment of skaters and topics. This is not Yu-Na Universe where everyone is a fan of Yu-Na Kim. Maybe you should consider staying in a fan forum for your favorite if you can't tolerate differences of opinions regarding her and her skating.

  15. #135

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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    It appears the type of discussion you want to have about Yu-Na doesn't belong in this forum, which is called Figure Skating Universe, where diverse figure skating fans from all around the world share their varying opinions and interests about a wide assortment of skaters and topics. This is not Yu-Na Universe where everyone is a fan of Yu-Na Kim. Maybe you should consider staying in a fan forum for your favorite if you can't tolerate differences of opinions regarding her and her skating.
    Don't be so jealous!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ks777 View Post
    Nobody said anything hurtful about Yuna. I don't know why you are taking this all personal. I don't know what you are doing here if you don't like other people opinons on your favorite(probably your country's hero).
    Quote Originally Posted by theguitarist View Post
    Feel free to disagree with me, Maybe you're right, maybe I'm overreacting. But, please don't get cute. I don't wonder if you are from Papua New Guinea or if you are gay. Let's keep this discussion where it belongs, shall we?
    I think you touched a very sensitive nerve, ks777

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    Comparing ice coverage and speed is a good way to get a sense of skater's skating skills:

    Mao Asada
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_Oqd7ALbCA
    (unfortunately, I cannot find this season's program taken from afar, but we can assume her skating skills have improved since last season)

    Yuna Kim
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=5gj9JYjdYv8

    Carolina Kostner
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRevSNTNMKc

    Things to focus are speed before jump, but also ice coverage of step sequence. Who covers the most ice?

  18. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by theguitarist View Post
    ...I don't wonder if you are from Papua New Guinea or if you are gay...
    I agree that the nationality or ethnicity of posters is far less important than their grasp of the facts and willingness to learn from others.

    ETA: This post replaces a terrible attempt at a joke that fell flatter than Surya Bonaly's edges.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 02-15-2013 at 09:43 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Actually Kim Yu Na is very popular Papua New Guinea. Her positions remind them of the traditional squat done by tribal big men.
    So this is what you mean by "many thoughtful posters".

    In my view, going back to the categories set by the thread starter, Yuna has superior qualities than Mao or Caro in the following areas:

    Jumps:
    - Axel
    - Toe
    - Flip
    - Lutz
    - Combos (3-3 and 2-3)

    Skating Skills (edge, speed, flow)
    Transitions
    Choreography

    Mao certainly has the edge in spins, and Caro is second to Yuna in skating skills. Caro has the edge in salchow, and loop is between Caro and Mao, as Yuna doesn't have it. As for choreography/musicality/interpretation, etc. although Mao is the most balletic skater of the three, she has the least musicality in my view and is outclassed by not just Yuna, but many other top skaters. Caro is only slightly better.

    Thus, Yuna is clearly the best skater of the three, no contest.

    However, given that the difference in BV is now 10 points between Yuna's and Mao's current LP layouts, this doesn't mean Yuna will win easily or if at all. I said Yuna can beat a clean Mao at the Worlds, and I think she should if Yuna skates perfectly, but that is up to the judges. In reality though, I think the chance of both Mao and Caro going clean at the Worlds is as likely as jealous Yuna-antis at FSU behaving themselves.

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    I don't think Asada will deliver a clean performance of her FS "Swan Lake." Her "8-triple" jump layout is out of her reach in my opinion. She'll most likely pop the salchow, under-rotate the second jumps of her 3+3 and 2+3 and have an obvious flutz. 3A is 50/50. She should've concentrated more on improving her jumping technique because for now, she can't jump high enough. The original 7-triple without 3A was already so difficult and she hasn't skated it clean. Now that she's trying even more, the chances of her skating it clean is even slimmer. Being ambitious only means so much when you're actually successful at it.

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