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  1. #101

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    Perhaps skating will become more popular with the general public when single and pairs skaters can do their programs to music with lyrics starting in the 2014-2015 season. I will miss a lot of the symphonic/balletic music that has been used over the years, but if it helps the sport, that would be a good thing. And costumes will have to become more contemporary to go with more modern programs.

  2. #102
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    PLEASE CHANGE THE TITLE !!! or the debate will be focused forever on the US figure skating popularity VS the rest of the world!
    And if there's another already existing thread that deals exclusively with the US scene as many have already indicated, this is a really such an irrelevant thread.
    Just saying.

  3. #103

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    I don't see where NBC was in third in the all-important demo.

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by aims View Post
    PLEASE CHANGE THE TITLE !!!
    FYI, people who start threads only have 5 minutes to modify their own thread titles; after that, only a FSU moderator has the power to change a thread title (usually via private message request), and they don't have to do it if they don't feel it's necessary.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    I don't see where NBC was in third in the all-important demo.
    What is the relevance of these articles that are dated 2010? I haven't read all the pages in this thread & am curious as to what I've missed?

  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    I don't see where NBC was in third in the all-important demo.
    I rechecked, and I got my stats mixed up. I had looked up the viewership for the US figure skating championships, and that was what came in third in the 18-49 demo.
    8:00 FOX UFC: Johnson vs. Dodson (810PM)- Live 1.8/6 3.77
    ABC The Taste (8-10PM) - R 0.7/2 2.13
    CBS NCIS: Los Angeles- R 0.5/2 3.98
    NBC U.S. Figure Skating Championships (8-11PM) - Live 0.5/2 3.40
    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...s-down/166926/

    The Vancouver Olympics did better, but not well in terms of past Olympic viewership:
    The 2010 Vancouver Winter Olympics averaged a 13.8 rating in primetime — the third-lowest of the previous fifty years, but still up 13% from Turin in 2006 (12.2).
    http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2012...-back-to-2002/

    Quote Originally Posted by merrywidow View Post
    What is the relevance of these articles that are dated 2010? I haven't read all the pages in this thread & am curious as to what I've missed?
    I and a couple others made the point that figure skating is skewed towards older audiences, and doesn't win the all-important 18-49 viewer demo. Manhn has been insisting it does, and that the Vancouver Olympics were more popular than ever. I think the stats indicate pretty clearly that isn't the case.

    The upshot of that being people are making suggestions for what figure skating should change, but all the suggested changes are really for people in the oldest viewer demographic, and that's neither a growing market nor an attractive viewership for advertising dollars. So doing things to appeal to older viewers rather misses the point that younger viewers just aren't into skating, and it's not because of lack of televised comps or confusion over IJS. They simply prefer other things given the choice.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    I and a couple others made the point that figure skating is skewed towards older audiences, and doesn't win the all-important 18-49 viewer demo. Manhn has been insisting it does, and that the Vancouver Olympics were more popular than ever. I think the stats indicate pretty clearly that isn't the case..
    manhn didn't insist that it does: he said,

    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    NBC's ratings for the Vancouver Olympics were the highest for a non-US Olympics since Lillehammer.
    which I think is quite different, and to refute this,

    Quote Originally Posted by agalisgv View Post
    For the Vancouver Olympics coverage in the US, television coverage was definitely skewed older. IIRC, in the men's figure skating competition, Olympic coverage came in third of the top four network broadcasters in the coveted 18-49 demographic.
    he cited statistics specifically about the Men's competition.

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  8. #108
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    All it takes is one seriously strong U.S. contender for the ladies' title to bring up the ratings here in the States.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    manhn didn't insist that it does: he said,



    which I think is quite different
    His comment was in apparent reference to this claim by BR:
    Quote Originally Posted by BlueRidge View Post
    Someone can check on the stats for this but I believe that the Winter Olys has declined in viewership a great deal over the years, especially since cable gave people more tv choices. So most people don't even see the Winter Oly figure skating which in the days of Peggy Fleming and Dorothy Hamill were what got people interested in skating stars.
    Since hers was the only post to reference Olympic viewership, that's the only way manhn's post makes sense.

    And in that context, he's refuting the declining viewership of the Olympics. I posted stats indicating that viewership is indeed down--including Vancouver.
    he cited statistics specifically about the Men's competition.
    I also cited stats regarding the men's competition. And the women's competition. On non-championship days, it lost out to other shows (namely American Idol). It won on championship days, but it didn't go up against the finale of American Idol on those days either.

    And overall, Olympic tv ratings aren't what they used to be--nowhere close.

    Someone asked what the ratings were for the US championships, and they were far worse. So even when you have dedicated prime time coverage, 18-49 yo are choosing to watch something else because they just don't find it that interesting. If you add some human drama ala Harding/Kerrigan, it will go up, but not otherwise.

    I really just don't understand why some think if people just saw it more, we'd have a mass following of skating fans. It's like some can't fathom that their interests may not have broad appeal, and it's not due to the ignorance of others.

  10. #110
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    A few things. First, focussing on the Olympics is really only a very small part of the story. Olympics are a unique event. Quite a few sports draw viewers during the Olympics and then disappear for 4 years. The strength of FS has been that it has not disappeared but was strong on its own. This is clearly fading in many parts of the world. And this means loss of money to the ISU and to federations. Second, I completely agalisgv's point that it simply is not appealing to younger demographics and this is a very discouraging trend. But it is old fashioned and rather incomprehensible. Third, I do not agree that a lady contender from the US will revive ratings in a material way. It may have a short term increase but it will not, in and to itself, reach a younger demographic and encourage new viewers. Look at the Canadian ratings. They were huge for the Olympics. Virtue/Moir were household names. Chan got tons of coverage. Yet after the games, despite both Virtue/Moir and Chan being world champions, TV numbers are sliding and I'm willing to bet, sliding very badly in the younger demographics. All people in FS need to recognize this trend and figure out that significant changes must be made to the sport and yes, the sport must be marketed (shock). Otherwise it will be a marginalized sport that gets a bit more attention in the Olympic years like so many other sports.
    Last edited by Paul; 02-05-2013 at 06:41 PM.

  11. #111

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    I still refute that fewer Americans are watching the Olympics. From another article:

    http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...overage/43290/

    With 185 million viewers, the Vancouver Games (with still one day remaining) move past the Torino Games, Nagano Games and Albertville Games. When the final viewership numbers are available tomorrow, Vancouver will likely surpass the Salt Lake City Games (187 million ) and will trail only the *tabloid-fueled Lillehammer Games as the most-watched Winter Olympics in history.
    Or another: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...history/43448/

    The Vancouver Olympics on NBC stands as the most dominating non-U.S. Winter Olympics among viewers on record (dating back to Nielsen’s advent of people meters in 1987). At the tabloid-fueled Lillehammer Games, the Olympics held an eight percent edge over the combined competition on Fox, CBS and ABC.
    As for Canada (to keep the thread more "international"), isn't Canadian TV doing what a lot of people want? Complete (or almost complete) coverage of major skating events. Worlds has been complete since 2007. Skate Canada, even when it changed to CTV/TSN, has been complete since 2007. And live. Coverage of skaters at Nationals, while no longer complete, is more comprehensive than the beloved 90s. They have at least two major sponsors. Canada is at least competent in each discipline of the sport.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    As for Canada (to keep the thread more "international"), isn't Canadian TV doing what a lot of people want? Complete (or almost complete) coverage of major skating events. Worlds has been complete since 2007. Skate Canada, even when it changed to CTV/TSN, has been complete since 2007. And live. Coverage of skaters at Nationals, while no longer complete, is more comprehensive than the beloved 90s. They have at least two major sponsors. Canada is at least competent in each discipline of the sport.
    Yes, this is all true about coverage and yet the trend for numbers is down! So despite all of these positive factors, reining world champions, decent skaters in all disciplines, the viewership is decreasing and aging. And this in a winter sport country with a long history in FS. This is exactly why there should be great concern for the future. All the coverage and other factors aren't working. The sport is not doing well in Canada. As for the sponsors, yes two, but its first hard to conclude whether they are really major and second, they took a long time to find.

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCC View Post
    I would like to see the actual score sheet/counter posted in a corner of the tv screen on taped performances. That quad jump was worth x points. That spin was worth y points. That would not be the total final score for the skate, but I think it would explain why technical scores are different between skaters. The downside, of course, is that focusing on the running score would be a huge distraction from watching the actual performance. And it would be impossible to do on a live performance. Maybe use it just for replays?
    It's completely possible to do this live. You'd show the planned content before the jump and the what the panel called it afterward. Sure, sometimes they review stuff and downgrade/upgrade/change levels. But the announcers could even say that when the final scores come up. Heck, you could show everything live -- the GOE input by the judges, the calls by the tech panel. Then what the final mark was after it was all reviewed and made final. I'm not sure you need *that* much detail but it's all technically doable.
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  14. #114

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    A person attending an event in person tends to be the last to know anything judge or points related. See the family of Amelie Lacoste.

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    It's completely possible to do this live. You'd show the planned content before the jump and the what the panel called it afterward. Sure, sometimes they review stuff and downgrade/upgrade/change levels. But the announcers could even say that when the final scores come up.
    If the data input from the tech panel is available to the broadcast team, then it would be possible to put up graphics based on what was called, i.e., the name of the element including the level, and whether or not it was flagged for review. And/or the commentators could say without guessing that the tech panel would be reviewing that element after the program and could offer a guess as to why.

    Heck, you could show everything live -- the GOE input by the judges, the calls by the tech panel. Then what the final mark was after it was all reviewed and made final. I'm not sure you need *that* much detail but it's all technically doable.
    I don't think you could show the GOE input by the judges live. Sometimes a judge might not put in the GOE right away. There are several different reasons why they might need to wait till after the program to score a particular element, or might change the GOE after seeing the finalized tech panel calls after the reviews. So even if some of the judges scored the element in real time and the computer took the average and fed it to the broadcast team immediately, those scores would be temporary.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by lamarenee View Post
    Perhaps skating will become more popular with the general public when single and pairs skaters can do their programs to music with lyrics starting in the 2014-2015 season. I will miss a lot of the symphonic/balletic music that has been used over the years, but if it helps the sport, that would be a good thing. And costumes will have to become more contemporary to go with more modern programs.
    I hate to see what programs are going to be like once they start using lyrics. I can only imagine it will be so annoying with all that rap stuff.

  17. #117
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    I came across this video recently of Ashley's performance at the Japan Open. At the bottom of the screen when an element is done the name is given, the level and scores, i.e. the protocols. I wonder if this could be done live (I'm assuming this information was added later on this particular video). Of course, even this leaves one scratching his head at some of the scores given by the judges.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIVZhCHV5iE
    Last edited by Iceman; 02-05-2013 at 11:55 PM.

  18. #118

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    No, it would not be possible to post all those numbers in real time.

    All that would realistically be possible to post -- not during an element, but within a couple seconds afterward -- would be the name/code for the element with the level as applicable, and whether or not there was going to be a review. And maybe GOEs for the judges who got their marks for that element input within those few seconds.

    But all those numbers will be subject to change during that wait period after the program ends but before the scores are announced. For some programs there might be no changes. For others there might be so many, or a few of such significance, that the official score would look very different from what was put up on the screen during the program. So you risk confusing the audience even further by showing the unofficial preliminary numbers during the performance.

    However, for a tape-delayed broadcast, something like what you show would be very possible, using the finalized marks.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    I still refute that fewer Americans are watching the Olympics.
    Ah, I think understand the problem. You're looking at raw numbers, while generally ratings are detailed as percentage of viewing audiences. Of course we have dramatically more people in the US now than before, so you'd expect higher raw numbers. But as a percentage of viewers, fewer are tuning in to the Olympics than before. And far fewer 18-49 yo are watching percentage-wise compared to older folk, and compared to Olympics from many years ago.

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by dewey View Post
    Isn't the airport actually in Iowa?
    No. It is in Omaha. There is also a regional airport in Lincoln with commercial service, and airports with commuter service in other smaller cities in the state.

    The population of the state is around 1.85 million. The population of the Omaha metro area is a bit over 415,000.

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