Is it physically possible to land a clean quadruple axel in competition?

[Sasha'sSpins]

Came across the CGI video (see post 1), and wondered whether we would ever see one for real one day, and whether it was even possible.

I think it's an excellent poll and I'm having fun with it.

The axel happens to be my favorite jump and I'm so happy I got to see Midori Ito nail the first one by ladies and Tonya Harding the first for American women. I hope to live long enough to see the day when the quad axel is nailed in an ISU sanctioned competition-and it will I'm sure of it! I might not live long enough to see a lady do it I grant-but you never know!

You must be very young. Midori and Tonya fully rotated the 3As routinely, just like the men did.

Thank you. These kids! They really should study the history of figure skating!

[Aussie Willy]

No unless we see a male version of Midori Ito. Or Midori and Elvis decided to have a baby together. Or Midori have a baby with a Japanese gymnast Uchimura.

Mmmm interesting scenarios.

[briancoogaert]

Kurt Browning had a big triple Axel. Does anyone know if he attempted 4Axel at the practices ?
Same with Petrenko or Kulik.

[black]

If gravity remains the same, (objects falling with the same acceleration) then look to the rotation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angular_momentum

It even uses a figure skater as an example.

Thus if you want a greater angular momentum (faster rotation) you need to bring more mass, more distance to the centre of axis.

Assuming you don't have your arms lengthened, the solution would be to have weights (very securely) fastened to your wrists/hands.

Practice this on a spinning office chair (preferably not with castors & slowly!!) bring your arms in, once empty, second with a water bottle in each hand, notice the difference?

With more mass the rotation will be faster = more rotation for the same height jump.

As Casey Carlyle would say, "Physics".

The drawbacks would be controlling the increased acceleration. (And it will probably be banned by the ISU, if not already)

[aka_gerbil]

The drawbacks would be controlling the increased acceleration. (And it will probably be banned by the ISU, if not already)

FWIW, the 4A is actually in the code of points. Since they put it in and assigned a value to it, I'm thinking that it would not be banned by the ISU. I would think that using weights attached to you hands to achieve the 4A would be frowned upon though.

[aliceanne]

It's been dicussed in other threads. The consensus among skaters and coaches (Stojko, Mishin) is that someone would have to develop a lighter skate with enough support.

[Ziggy]

It's been dicussed in other threads. The consensus among skaters and coaches (Stojko, Mishin) is that someone would have to develop a lighter skate with enough support.

We have those black lighter blades now (forgot what they are called) but I know a competitive skater for whom they broke mid-season.

[Aussie Willy]

4 Axel has a base value of 15 points and for an underrotated jump a base value of 10.5. Downgraded will go back to a 8.5 (value of 3A).

[judgejudy27]

I think Midori Ito definitely could have done it. Not sure if there are any men who could have, maybe Brian Boitano, Kurt Browning, Alexei Yagudin, or a younger Evgeny Plushenko.

[black]

No offence/offense intended by this post.

Do you think there is still a degree of racism in figure skating that puts off some great athletes? (who might be able to land a 4A)

[lakewood]

Someone with Michael Jordan jump ability may do it?

[skateboy]

I've often wondered if, at some point, skates will be made with springs to make more rotations more possible.

[Ziggy]

Do you think there is still a degree of racism in figure skating that puts off some great athletes? (who might be able to land a 4A)

Yes (well other than for the 4A part because I don't think anybody will land it ever - unless there's some serious technological advances).

And not just in skating but in life in general.

And I don't just think. I can safely say that I know because we have a lot of psychological and sociological research to prove this is the case.

[briancoogaert]

And not just in skating but in life in general.

And I don't just think. I can safely say that I know because we have a lot of psychological and sociological research to prove this is the case.

I don't know about racism, but for sure, in Figure Skating, money is a key that puts off some athletes.

[Rock2]

I agree it will be a man's version of Ito. She finished her 3A pretty high so it looked like there was room for another almost half rotation. So I can see a man getting there.
However, I would see this NOT coming from a top skater, but rather from someone lower down who decides to put this in his bag as a trick shot just to maybe get to worlds because he has such great axel technique. Would be real hard to train all the other triples and quads and get your levels AND add this and not kill yourself.

It would be someone with this rare ability who has little else to offer and therefore sees the risk as worth it.

[ballettmaus]

It's a tough call for me. Since ice is a hard surface and doesn't really give a bounce and aide with jumping, I'd say it all comes down to whether someone can develop enough force to hurl himself high enough into the air to complete the revolutions. Hard to tell because I have no idea how much room skaters have lef in regards to force when it comes to a 3axel.
The question, I guess, is also what it does to a skaters health, how likely it is to succeed and if a skater considers the risks worth it.

[Aussie Willy]

I love how people say it has to be the male version of Ito to get that jump. I think that is a great compliment to Ito and the respect she has amongst skating fans.

[Screenie]

To be sure-there are young men out there attempting quad axels in practices-here's Ryan Bradley's attempt -and here's another guy's (don't know his name) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1e7rg1hNQIw and the same guy in real time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uG_uc4O3DVE one day...

Ryan Bradley's video above is a triple axel not a quad.
The other skater is Keegan Messing and it's a quad attempt that's about 1/2 turn underrotated.

I voted for by 2040 as I think it will take some boot improvements and those will take a while.

[Skittl1321]

We have those black lighter blades now (forgot what they are called) but I know a competitive skater for whom they broke mid-season.

There are quite a few different lighter blades now, almost every company is making a light version. (The biggest advantage is they hold a sharpening for WAY longer, at least to me where the weight doesn't matter.)

Do many men wear Edeas? Those boots are much lighter than standard boots.

I have a friend who is a long distance backpacker with 'ultra light' philosophy- she trims her shoelaces to the shortest possible length they can still tie, even cuts her hair before she goes. No extra weight at all. Would have to remove all the crystals from a skating costume- they weigh you down quite a bit.

[Moka-Ananas]

I remember an interview with Andrei Griazev who, btw., had an exquisite triple axel and in which he said that he would love to do a quad axel and was thinking about practising it. No idea if he actually did.
And I think I have seen an off-ice video of Sergei Dobrin trying to do a quad axel on the floor.