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Thread: Quad Throws

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    Quad Throws

    I know we haven't seen many quad throws, we've seen a few sals and one toe that I know of. I think there's a reason for that though. Skaters aren't well rewarded for trying quad throws. A 4s throw is only worth 8 points compared to the 4.5 point triple. In singles, a 3s is worth 4.2 while a quad sal is worth 10.5. This point difference encourages skaters to try the harder element. I really wish there was a bigger point disparity so that we'd see more growth in that department. Just thinking out loud.

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    I agree with you.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

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    The disparity between the scoring of solo jumps and throw jumps is a little strange, but perhaps it was done purposefully that way because of the risk of injury.

    Ladies pair skaters really are at huge risk in throw jumps, because of the assist of the throw, the jumps are higher and longer, land with much more force than the lady on her own could create - even the rotation is usually assisted by the partner - look at the throws of the top pairs - the size of the jumps means they could easily fit another rotation in for a quad, but I would guess that checking out of a quad would be much too difficult to do. If you look at the size of Savchenko and Szolkowy's throw triple flip - it looks easily big enough to get a fourth rotation, but she sometimes struggles to stop the rotation on the triple, I don't doubt stopping the quad would be near on impossible and i'm not too sure whether i would want a scoring system encouraging the pairs to try such risky things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    The disparity between the scoring of solo jumps and throw jumps is a little strange, but perhaps it was done purposefully that way because of the risk of injury.

    Ladies pair skaters really are at huge risk in throw jumps, because of the assist of the throw, the jumps are higher and longer, land with much more force than the lady on her own could create - even the rotation is usually assisted by the partner - look at the throws of the top pairs - the size of the jumps means they could easily fit another rotation in for a quad, but I would guess that checking out of a quad would be much too difficult to do. If you look at the size of Savchenko and Szolkowy's throw triple flip - it looks easily big enough to get a fourth rotation, but she sometimes struggles to stop the rotation on the triple, I don't doubt stopping the quad would be near on impossible and i'm not too sure whether i would want a scoring system encouraging the pairs to try such risky things.
    I think you took all my points into consideration in this post. well done

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    If anyone hasn't seen Shen and Zhaos quad sal from the Olympics in 2002 then go watch now!!! That jump made me gasp for an entire second! Still in awe of that marvel in pairs skating.

    That was for me the most thrilling moment in all of figure skating ever, too bad she basically slipped off the landing.

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    Under 6.0, the quad had a lot more value than under COP, so at least a few pairs were trying it. Besides S&Z, Zhang & Zhang had landed a quad salchow at a junior competition (was it Jr. worlds?). During one season Tamara had started making B&S practice that throw, but they never landed it in a competition, AFAIK. Among current pairs only Yuko Kawaguti has landed it. Given the amount of risk involved, the reward is not big enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Under 6.0, the quad had a lot more value than under COP, so at least a few pairs were trying it. Besides S&Z, Zhang & Zhang had landed a quad salchow at a junior competition (was it Jr. worlds?). During one season Tamara had started making B&S practice that throw, but they never landed it in a competition, AFAIK. Among current pairs only Yuko Kawaguti has landed it. Given the amount of risk involved, the reward is not big enough.
    Is that a risk one would want to reward though?
    If you look at how many landed it how often successfully it seems it's more of an injury risk than anything else and I think, no one should want to encourage that. Didn't Zhang have that horrible fall at the Olympics (was it 2002 or 2006?) trying to land a quad? I'm still amazed she didn't suffer a severe injury from that one!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Under 6.0, the quad had a lot more value than under COP, so at least a few pairs were trying it. Besides S&Z, Zhang & Zhang had landed a quad salchow at a junior competition (was it Jr. worlds?). During one season Tamara had started making B&S practice that throw, but they never landed it in a competition, AFAIK. Among current pairs only Yuko Kawaguti has landed it. Given the amount of risk involved, the reward is not big enough.
    I'm not sure you can really say whether it did have more value under 6.0 or not since we never really knew what the judges took into consideration - equally under 6.0 we will never know for sure whether anyu judges would have considered S&Z's Olympic quad sal landed with a fall after, or failed.

    Overall I think we've seen more quads attempted since COP than under 6.0. Under 6.0 Yao Bin was determined to get one of his skaters to land it and had S&Z and the Zhangs attempt quad sal, but i can't think of many others trying quads. There was that blonde girl that started out skating for the Ukraine then switched to Russia and skated with two different guys whose surnames began with S (Soloviev maybe) and they were trying quad twist lifts.

    Under COP though the Zhangs and Kavaguti&Smirnov had multiple seasons trying the throw quad salchow, Sui & Han were trying throw quad sal along with quad twist lift in the same programme. Didn't Vise & Trent land at least one of their quad sal attemptes? Quite a few junior and novice teams have put quad twist lifts in their programmes too, i'm guessing the bigger pair guys with really young females have no problem getting and stopping the rotation on them by pure muscle.

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    K/S and S/H have both landed enough quads in competition to make it well worth it. Even with a fall they get 5.00 points (minus a 1.00 point deduction) and with a triple only being worth 4.50 I would certainly take that chance. Someone tweeted that K/S just did a clean one at TEB. So the risk/reward is for sure there. Vise and Trent landed the first one with K/S doing it a few months later at Russian Nationals and then Europeans in 2008. The two times Kavaguti fell on the quad at worlds definitely cost them a silver medal both times but if they didn't at least try they could have very easily been in 4th.

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