The third spot

[BigB08822]

I just don't believe the judges are that good at math that they can play with their GOEs and PCS to make these results magically happen.

AMEN! I might believe it if Gold scored a 65 for her SP or something but it ended up being only a few points difference that put Gold in silver position and on the World team. That is some serious conspiring between 9 judges to make it come down to only a couple of points at the very end.

[Alex Forrest]

I just don't believe the judges are that good at math that they can play with their GOEs and PCS to make these results magically happen.

And I whole heartedly agree with it. Gold was skating lights out and then bombed the SP. The judges KNEW they had to hold her up, so you got her SP score which defies any explanation. They obviously aren't math wizzes, because they made Gold's SP placement TOO controversial. But whatever, I think we have the best team. I would have liked Gold to skate a clean SP just to show she won't be buried at Worlds, but really the politics all week were Wagner/Gold. And so it came to be... I am still trying to understand Nagasu and Zhang...

[NadineWhite]

Who came in third at 2002 US Nationals for the ladies? Who won the ladies' 2002 Olympic gold medal?

Who came in third at 2006 Japanese Nationals for the ladies? Who won the ladies' 2006 Olympic gold medal?

Who came in third at 2009 US Nationals for the men? Who won the men's 2009 World gold medal?



The importance of the third spot.......

Lol I thought when I opened this thread you'd be talking about getting that magical 3rd spot back for the US. And I hope they do, I truly hope they do...

[michiruwater]

Is seriously not as important as many of you would like to believe.

If we deserved to have a third spot, we would have it.

[Cheylana]

With all due respect, I'm sure it'll be awfully important to the lady who finishes third at Nationals next year. And I highly doubt she'll be undeserving of a ticket to the Olympics.

Maybe a few years ago we didn't "deserve" the third spot, but at this point, I think our talent pool is deep enough that we kind of do deserve the third spot. Whether we actually get it may come down to luck. Sometimes it's good or bad. At 2008 Worlds, the men got three spots by the skin of their teeth. I believe Johnny got third due in part to Takahashi doing too many combination jumps, and Steve Carriere grabbed 10th. Suppose Johnny ended up fourth. Then we would have been down to two spots, and Lysacek would have been off the team in 2009. Sure couldn't count on Jeremy and Brandon to get back the third spot at 2009 Worlds, so with Lysacek not available to skate a blinder at 2009 Worlds we would have had only two spots for the 2010 Olympics, leaving Johnny off the Olympic team. Would Johnny have been "undeserving" of a 2010 Olympic berth?

As for the ladies, sure it's not the end of the world if they don't get back that third spot, but to say that not getting it means they don't deserve it dismisses the luck factor. When it's a team of two, you need both members to be relatively "on" and healthy to gain back the third spot; there's little/no room for error. The US ladies were a mere double axel away from getting back the third spot at the 2010 Worlds, and then it was at least a little unlucky to have 50% of its team skate with injury at the next two World Championships. I guess we'll see if their luck changes this year.

[skateboy]

I feel much worse for Oda and Kozuka sitting at home watching worlds than I do for the US 3rd place skaters who don't get to go...

[UGG]

the US ladies third spot is the recurring obsession of every season even if you are a skating fan from Java or Azerbajan, or a visiting alien from Saturn, you'll have to face it sooner or later. you can't escape. actually, a skating season without the eternal discussions around this extremely important matter wouldnt be a real season. as long as it's been discussed, everything is alright, it means that the world isnt going to end soon. year after year, it becomes an essential part of your existence, to the point that you'd be never able to enjoy life again if such discussions disappeared.

Most topics regarding figure skating are recurring and somewhat obsessive. Do we really talk about anything new? I don't know why many find this topic so offensive.

[Cheylana]

I feel much worse for Oda and Kozuka sitting at home watching worlds than I do for the US 3rd place skaters who don't get to go...

Kozuka yes, honestly I enjoy him so much more than Hanyu.
Oda...well...he's blown even more opportunities than Abbott has!!

[leafygreens]

Who came in third at 2002 US Nationals for the ladies? Who won the ladies' 2002 Olympic gold medal?

If Sarah hadn't been there, Michelle would have won the gold and Sasha the bronze. A third spot in this competition was not really necessary.

[UGG]

Actually Irina would have won because the scenario that Michelle would need 2nd in the LP to win would no longer exist.

[Andofanatic]

If only Abbott could have gone to worlds as the #3 skater, his chances of making the podium would be better than those of Aaron or Miner. I am not convinced that Aaron is the future of US mens skating. One competition does not make a future. Remember Ricky Dornbush couple years ago? He never found that magic again. I hope that does not happen to Aaron. I hope that we have many talented, medal-worthy men, but as Yoda says- "Hard to predict the future is".

None of the U.S men have a prayer of a podium at the World level now. That includes Evan and Johnny should they be dumb enough to "return" again.

[Sasha'sSpins]

And if you aren't on, you'll still magically get a 120 in the free skate and make it to Worlds anyway (Wagner). And your disastrous short program will score just enough to make sure you still have a chance at Worlds (Gold). I definitely feel that Wagner and Gold belong at Worlds, but our selection procedures could be better for sure.

^^^
THIS!

[skateboy]

Kozuka yes, honestly I enjoy him so much more than Hanyu.
Oda...well...he's blown even more opportunities than Abbott has!!

Re Oda: fair enough, but there's only been one time where he really didn't deliver the goods Worlds 2010). He's just got severe counting issues! Still, he's one of the top competitors out there and he had a decent season this year.

[Vash01]

I feel much worse for Oda and Kozuka sitting at home watching worlds than I do for the US 3rd place skaters who don't get to go...

I feel much worse for Jeremy sitting at home than Oda & Kozuka (even though I like Kozuka).

[blue_idealist]

But what about when one of the medal contenders for worlds just has a bad day at nationals? That was the case in 2009- no way was Brandon Mroz a medal contender for worlds. Had we only had two spots that year, he still would have been sent to worlds as the silver medalist, while Lysacek would not have. Then, Lysacek would not be the world champion he is today. Jeremy Abbott had a bad day at Nationals- on a good day, he is absolutely a world medal contender, while I do not think Max Aaron is. All credit due to him for having a fantastic day at nationals and winning, but I highly doubt that even if he repeats that performance at worlds, that the international judges will give him the same PCS or GOE he got at Nationals. Even with that incredible skate with two quads, he only beat Abbott by about 5 points- and Abbott fell on an under rotated quad and doubled two triple jumps. It's a shame we'll never know what Abbott may have been capable of doing at Worlds this year. I think, with the pressure off him as national champ, he might have actually done better at Worlds, had he doubled one less jump and been sent to worlds as the silver medalist.

On a good day, he might be a world medal contender, but how often does he have a good day lately? Not often.