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  1. #61
    Recovering from the Olys
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    Many folks believe that an Olympic or World medal defines whether or not a skater has had a successful career. They're entitled to believe that; I don't.
    Last edited by Sylvia; 01-29-2013 at 06:51 PM. Reason: To edit in a missing 'a'
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by tut88 View Post
    that's what he said in a interview
    he should have gone for a easier and safer jump.
    That depends on whether his goal is just to make it out of Nationals or to medal at Worlds.

    If it is the former, a safer layout might have done the trick, but even if clean it's still likely that he would lose to Aaron.

    If it is the latter, he really can't leave out the quad. It's the same logic that I am using to predict that Wagner will NOT land the 3flip3toe or 2axel3toe at Worlds when she hasn't even attempted them all season. At least she attempted them at 4CCs last season but it wasn't the third competition (WTT) that she landed both (or was closest to landing them).

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Many folks believe that an Olympic or World medal defines whether or not a skater has had successful career. They're entitled to believe that; I don't.
    Well then perhaps he needs a goal for continuing. Does he just want to continue because he loves skating? or because he wants to go to the Olympics one more time? or what?

    He has already accomplished so much - National titles, 4CC medal, GPF champion, etc, is he hungry for more? If not, he should retire like Buttle did, or be content with whatever result he has and not making world teams every once in a while but raveling in the art that he shows. If yes, then he really needs to fix that bug.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    He is 3 time US Champion and an Olympian. What exactly do you think skaters need to do to "break through"?


    Said it in another thread and I'm going to say it again here: there is no way the 9 judges are good enough at math, and also working together to place the skaters that they would be able to place him just above Farris but off the world team, intentionally. It is possible they judged his PCS more harshly than other skaters, or more favorably- who knows, but I just don't think they can manipulate the results to the extent some people believe. It isn't like voting as a block in 6.0. To keep him off the world team, but at the bronze would have taken an insane level of coordination and calculation. (Okay- if he happens to double the salchow, then give him X for transitions, if his step sequence gets called Level 3, make sure to only give +2 GOE, +3 will ruin everything!)
    COP is really not different from the 6.0 (what you call a 'voting block'). Do you really believe that the judges work in isolation? They are not a part of a jury pool, to use an analogy. There is communication, politics, and the judges know or at least have some idea of how other judges are likely to score certain skaters. Jeremy is not getting the benefit of doubt at this point because he has disappointed his fans and the USFSA too many times and IMO they are writing him off because of his age too. Nobody needs to say it; they understand each other. FS has always been a political sport and it is going to remain that way, regardless of what scoring system you use.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marco View Post
    Well then perhaps he needs a goal for continuing. Does he just want to continue because he loves skating? or because he wants to go to the Olympics one more time? or what?

    He has already accomplished so much - National titles, 4CC medal, GPF champion, etc, is he hungry for more? If not, he should retire like Buttle did, or be content with whatever result he has and not making world teams every once in a while but raveling in the art that he shows. If yes, then he really needs to fix that bug.
    You can't really compare his situation to Buttle's. Buttle won an Olympic medal, a world championship. Jeremy has not even made the podium at either one, despite many opportunities. I am sure he is hungry, but unfortunately there is no food for him at this time. If he can work through his issues and use a smart strategy like Lysacek did in 2010, he may have a shot at going to one more Olympics and one more worlds. Barring injury, I don't see him quitting at this time. After the 2014 Olympics though I fully expect him to retire and skate for the love of skating.

  6. #66
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    I don't get all these calls for skaters to quit in general. It's their lives, their dreams; it doesn't hurt anyone if they stay in.
    As long as he is supporting himself with his skating, then you are right, nobody else is hurt by his staying in. Besides, it would be pretty unusual for anyone to retire going into the Olympic year.

    IMO the only other real factors (for just about any skater, really) are 1) what other opportunities is he missing by continuing to compete, and 2) is he doing permanent/chronic injury to his body by continuing to compete?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Many folks believe that an Olympic or World medal defines whether or not a skater has had successful career. They're entitled to believe that; I don't.
    I'm with you: I loved his SP, love his artistry and would rather he find a way to stay in one more year unless his back is too bad to compete.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    COP is really not different from the 6.0 (what you call a 'voting block')
    To be clear, I meant a voting block as a way of cheating under 6.0, not what I think 6.0 was when done correctly. While I do think scores can be manipulated, I do think it is much harder under IJS, especially if the manipulation was to place a skater 3rd. If they want a huge win, that can be done easily.

  9. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by casken View Post
    YES YES YES.

    The tepid FS music, the low spin levels, the quad entry that clearly is too slow to happen, etc...

    The fact that these were allowed to continue on so long is a failure of the coaches, IMO.

    He needs more aggressive coaching, programs, and skating.

    I hate to say it, but maybe he should go to Morozov, if he'll have him.
    Agree, the SP program was fine but the FS was pretty dull to me. I don't want to say him/coaches aren't trying on the TES side of things, as I have no idea how much the injuries are hampering his abilities. But back when he was with Tom Z. (not that I'm trying to champion Tom Z., but like him or not he also happens to have our current champ) before and around the time he won his first National medal, I remember him as a quirky, fun speedy skater with awesome jumps and spins. Now it all seems kind of slow and heavy and sad. Considering Alissa has also gone the same way, I'm really not very confident that Yuka/Jason can pull him out of his current funk in the dramatic way that he will need...

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by haribobo View Post
    Agree, the SP program was fine but the FS was pretty dull to me. I don't want to say him/coaches aren't trying on the TES side of things, as I have no idea how much the injuries are hampering his abilities. But back when he was with Tom Z. (not that I'm trying to champion Tom Z., but like him or not he also happens to have our current champ) before and around the time he won his first National medal, I remember him as a quirky, fun speedy skater with awesome jumps and spins. Now it all seems kind of slow and heavy and sad. Considering Alissa has also gone the same way, I'm really not very confident that Yuka/Jason can pull him out of his current funk in the dramatic way that he will need...
    I was just watching a clip of Jeremy on YouTube back in 2008 at the GPF. Even though he was already 22 he looked much smaller and faster with big jumps. He looked like a future World Champion and perhaps even a Olympic champion. I only got back into skating around the time of the 2010 Olympics so i didn't see all the hype about his skating but now i see it. Sadly now he's almost 28 and isn't as fast and can't do the jumps like he used to. His body is just worn down.

  11. #71
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    Just saw a youtube clip of Jeremy playing around doing a little ice dance with Madi Hubbel. (May have been after Nat's gala). I think it'd be nice if he went into ice dance (or pairs). Maybe teaming up with Emily, even if just for exhibs/shows at this point. Yes, I love his skating. I'm not trying to upset any fans, this is just another thought.

  12. #72
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    If he's going to change discpline, I hope it's definitely dance. He's too good for pairs

  13. #73
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    The less jumping he has to do the better. However, given his competition nerves, he'll probably fall on a twizzle or something during major competition.

  14. #74
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    What's really sad though is that he actually has great jump technique and when on his jumps are wonderful.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    What's really sad though is that he actually has great jump technique and when on his jumps are wonderful.
    The story of his career. He always had the goods to be a world champion. If he had ever won the title, he'd be considered one of the better skaters to have won it.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    The story of his career. He always had the goods to be a world champion. If he had ever won the title, he'd be considered one of the better skaters to have won it.
    Next season ?

  17. #77
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    Even Jeff Buttle the skater who everybody thought was an eternal headcase artist won a medal or two as well as one world championship, why can't Abbott??

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    , why can't Abbott?
    1. His injuries apparently won't let him train a quad

    2. He can't get out of Nationals to get to Worlds.

    3, He has very, very terrible skating luck.

    He's too short for Emily, but maybe another ice dancer? It would be fun to watch him-

  19. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    Even Jeff Buttle the skater who everybody thought was an eternal headcase artist won a medal or two as well as one world championship, why can't Abbott??
    I think once Buttle gave up his quad, everything else got easier for him, and it was just-his time..

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    Even Jeff Buttle the skater who everybody thought was an eternal headcase artist won a medal or two as well as one world championship, why can't Abbott??
    It was different then. During Jeff's day, COP was still pretty new and it was in the transitional period of verteran skaters who grew up under 6.0 adapting to COP and the new ones speedily gaining recognition. Therefore, Jeff wasn't competing with the younger guys who had grown up with the COP in their prime. The quad was also valued less than it is today hence Buttle and Lysaceck winning titles without it.

    Now, skaters have grown up with COP, they have excellent skating skills, transitions, choreography, and now jump difficulty. It's just a different ballgame and I don't know if Buttle could have pulled off a title win with this landscape. Maybe he could have but even he had better performances on the World stage than Abbott. At least Buttle won a World bronze and an Olympic bronze before he won Worlds. Even in 2007 when he placed 6th, Buttle was second after the SP. When has Abbott ever skated well enough at Worlds that ranked him that high? I mean I guess you can argue he was undermarked in 2010 SP, but other than that? Also, has Buttle ever failed to make his World team twice?

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