View Poll Results: Greatest GPF champion(s) not to have won a World or Olympic title?

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  • Tatiana Malinina (1998/99)

    2 2.41%
  • Sasha Cohen (2002/03)

    42 50.60%
  • Fumie Suguri (2003/04)

    7 8.43%
  • Emanuel Sandhu (2003/04)

    9 10.84%
  • Jeremy Abbott (2008/09)

    10 12.05%
  • Alissa Czisny (2010/11)

    4 4.82%
  • Tatiana Volosozhar & Maxim Trankov (2012/13)

    9 10.84%
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  1. #1

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    Greatest GPF champion(s) not to have won a World or Olympic title?

    Winning a Grand Prix Final (or the Champions Series Final as it used to be known) is extremely difficult. So difficult, that it has only ever been won 7 times by skaters who have either never been up to that point, or gone on to be, a World or Olympic champion (although some of these 7 are still skating, and could still go on to be a World or Olympic champion).

    In the Ice Dance, all of the winners of the GPF/Champions Series Final have been World or Olympic champions. All but one of the Pairs winners have been too, the exception being Volosozhar & Trankov who could well go on to become World/Olympic champions.

    It is in the singles events that there has been the highest incidence of skaters winning the GPF/Champions Series Final, but failing to win a World or Olympic title - 4 ladies and 2 men

    Here is a list of the skaters who have become GPF/Champions Series Final champions without (so far) winning a World or Olympic title:-

    1998/99 - Tatiana Malinina Free Skate

    2002/03 - Sasha Cohen Short Program, 1st Free Skate, 2nd Free Skate

    2003/04 - Fumie Suguri Short Program, Free Skate

    2003/04 - Emanuel Sandhu Free Skate

    2008/09 - Jeremy Abbott Short Program, Free Skate

    2010/11 - Alissa Czisny Short Program, Free Skate

    2012/13 - Tatiana Volosozhar & Maxim Trankov Short Program, Free Skate

    So, which of these is the greatest?
    Last edited by Maofan7; 01-28-2013 at 05:30 AM.

  2. #2
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    I picked Alissa. She and Sasha stand out to me, but I've always preferred Alissa.

  3. #3
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    I picked Sasha but I don't even think V/T should be on the list. They just won their first GPF this year without the best competition being there and they will probably win Worlds this year.

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    Malinina- was never winning a Worlds. Even the year she won the GPF upsetting a very splatty Butyrskaya, she was never going to beat both Kwan and Butyrskaya, along with the other contenders, to win Worlds. The year she won the GPF however was the year of her big golden opportunity to medal at Worlds, and had she done a clean short she would have won the World silver that year. Oh well. I wish she had, she was a great jumper at her peak.

    Suguri- was never going to win Worlds. She just wasnt good enough. Even the year she won the GPF nobody thought she could win Worlds, everyone assuming it would be one of Kwan or Cohen for sure. It ended up being Arakawa but IMO Arakawas performances at Worlds that year were too strong for Fumie to have beaten, maybe a silver or bronze behind Shizuka had she done a great Q round and done similar or better performances to the GP final and her latter World performances the rest of the way, but that is it. 2005 she could have again won silver or bronze with her 4CC performances, but no way gold, Slutskaya was way too good for her to come even close to. 2006 was maybe a chance, but that wasnt a real Worlds anyway, and perhaps Meissner with her triple-triples and scoring 130 in the LP was too much for her to ever beat as well.

    Sandhu- based on the skater he actually was, not what he might have been with a stronger work ethic, he also was never going to win a Worlds. Had he skated up to his GP final standards he might have won silver or bronze at the 04 Worlds, but not gold. The standard was just too high. Cant think of any year he could have won Worlds even with his best skating, even completely ignoring his massive consistency issues, based on his actual abilities he had reached. Now with his natural talent had he worked like Elvis Stojko from day 1, and been better coached, it might have been possible.

    Abbott- would have won Evans World and Olympic titles from 2009 and 2010 had he duplicated his GP final (2009) or National (2010) performances, but as it was he came nowhere close ever, so I wouldnt pick him either.

    Volosozhar & Trankov- they are for sure winning 1 of the 2009 Worlds 2010 Olympics, and quite possibly both, so I ignore them for that reason. If by some miracle they win neither they will continue on to win the 2010 Worlds (where S&S presumably having won the 2010 Oly Gold in this hypothetical are surely retired now) and probably onwards anyway. In essence the odds of them never winning a World or Olympic event are probably about 3% or less so not even worth considering them.

    Czisny- Definitely not. Only year she could have medaled at Worlds was 2011, and that is only a bronze if she skated perfectly, and that was one of the worst Worlds ever with a 5 triple Miki Ando won.


    So the obvious winner in a runaway is Sasha Cohen who would have won all of the 2004 Worlds, 2006 Olympics, and 2006 Worlds with a clean LP, and maybe even the 2003 Worlds if she did a clean short and skated cleanly after landing her triple lutz-triple toe in the long, even if at the 2006 Olympics she would have had alot of help from her main competitors in doing so.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Sandhu- based on the skater he actually was, not what he might have been with a stronger work ethic, he also was never going to win a Worlds. Had he skated up to his GP final standards he might have won silver or bronze at the 04 Worlds, but not gold. The standard was just too high. Cant think of any year he could have won Worlds even with his best skating, even completely ignoring his massive consistency issues, based on his actual abilities he had reached. Now with his natural talent had he worked like Elvis Stojko from day 1, and been better coached, it might have been possible.
    Just curious, but what are you basing that he had a poor work ethic on.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Just curious, but what are you basing that he had a poor work ethic on.
    Everything I have heard, including people I know who actually have been in that rink and seen the chaos with McLeod and her groups, and Sandhu's diva meltdowns. Plus common knowledge in the skating World it seems, when has it not been brought up at same point.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Everything I have heard, including people I know who actually have been in that rink and seen the chaos with McLeod and her groups, and Sandhu's diva meltdowns. Plus common knowledge in the skating World it seems, when has it not been brought up at same point.
    You can never trust top skaters' opinions of each other's work habits. They are constantly putting out scuttlebutt about each others' laziness. So I tend to not form judgments based just on reputation. Sandra Bezic acted like Sandhu was really lazy, but then she also pretends to be Dr Phil and know more about situations than she does.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 01-28-2013 at 02:25 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Volosozhar & Trankov- they are for sure winning 1 of the 2009 Worlds 2010 Olympics, and quite possibly both, so I ignore them for that reason. If by some miracle they win neither they will continue on to win the 2010 Worlds (where S&S presumably having won the 2010 Oly Gold in this hypothetical are surely retired now) and probably onwards anyway. In essence the odds of them never winning a World or Olympic event are probably about 3% or less so not even worth considering them.
    I love Doctor Who, but is he really supposed to monkey with the results like that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Proustable View Post
    I love Doctor Who, but is he really supposed to monkey with the results like that?

  10. #10
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    Sasha Cohen for sure. Volosozhar/Trankov could still win a World or Olympic title.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by blue_idealist View Post
    Sasha Cohen for sure. Volosozhar/Trankov could still win a World or Olympic title.
    Are they really the only pair/dance team winners without a world/Olympic title?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Are they really the only pair/dance team winners without a world/Olympic title?
    Seemed surprising to me, too, but they are indeed the only pair or dance team to win the GPF and not win any World or Olympic gold.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    So the obvious winner in a runaway is Sasha Cohen who would have won all of the 2004 Worlds, 2006 Olympics, and 2006 Worlds with a clean LP, and maybe even the 2003 Worlds if she did a clean short and skated cleanly after landing her triple lutz-triple toe in the long, even if at the 2006 Olympics she would have had alot of help from her main competitors in doing so.
    I agree with most of this. I don't think she could have won 2004 Worlds even if she skated cleanly. She showed up with that Robin Wagner-ized gutted mess of a free skate, that even if skated flawlessly would have been mediocre. I think what Arakawa delivered that night was beyond reach for Cohen. If she would have kept the original exquisite TT Swan Lake, I think she would have had a strong case for the win.

    Sasha was such a beautiful skater though, it's a shame she was never able to win a world title. A clean victory at the 2006 Worlds would have been a wonderful conclusion to her career.

  14. #14
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    Sasha had 3 of 9 counting judges put her over Arakawa even with her very subpar skate with one major mistake, numerous shaky landings, and omited combinations. Kwan had 4 of 9 counting judges put her over Arakawa and her triple-triple fest with only 5 triples. Sasha skating cleanly at the 04 Worlds would have won easily. Whether she deserved to or not is another question, but Shizuka just didnt have the rep at that time, unlike 2006 when with 5 triples she easily won over Cohen with 5, and would have won over Slutskaya with only 5 too.

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    Abbott since he was a more talented skater than Cohen with stronger jumps and better edges.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ares View Post
    I agree with most of this. I don't think she could have won 2004 Worlds even if she skated cleanly.
    You are wrong here. I dont think Sasha would have deserved to win those Worlds over Shizuka long program even had she gone clean, but she would have. The judges were waiting to give her those Worlds on a silver platter, just like the judges at U.S Nationals that year were waiting to give her the U.S title on a silver platter, and just like the GPF judges were waiting to give her that event on a silver platter, and she blew it all herself all three times. It could be argued Shizuka at Worlds, Kwan at U.S Nationals, and even Fumie at the GPF skated well enough to deserve to beat even a clean Sasha but I am pretty sure none of them would have. She was the anointed one and she was the only one who could lose those events, and lose them all she did.

  17. #17
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    This is not to take away from Cohen or Suguri who overall netted more medals at Worlds (and also the Olympics in Cohen's case), but IMO out of everyone on the list, Abbott was clearly the best skater. Sandhu was great but his programs were never as detailed or complex.

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