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  1. #81
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    ^^ Re "rough, but fair": I'd say that subjectively Mirai should/ could have been in second after the sp over Agnes, and that it looks very bad to have dropped Mirai all the way down to seventh overall taking into account what she did in the sp, and also the fact she wasn't completely horrible in the fp. The deduction in her fp for what looked similar to a Patrick Chan-like "nonfall" is also debatable.

    I do think that both Mirai and Christina should have made a more concerted effort to look happier during and after their skates for what they did well (Mirai toughing it out with illness, and Christina skating a pretty clean fp, albeit with some tense moments). Like Scott Hamilton said after Christina's skate (in fact the only substantive insight he had IMO): "Don't play up the negative." That's something many skaters should take heed of.

  2. #82

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    I don't think she has that "it" factor at all. In fact since Sasha left in 2006 we haven't had a skater with that "it" factor. They have been nice pleasant skaters with some good skills but no one has been exciting. I'm thinking Gracie might change that, but who knows. Mirai was a fun teenager when she first won her National title, but for some time now she has looked bored with skating. I certainly didn't think she had any persosnality at Nationals this year. Yes, she was ill but lots of skaters skate when they are sick, and they do a whole lot better. With Mirai there always seems to be some problem. Last year she didn't do well because of the long commute, this year she was sick next year there will be some other problem. I do agree that maybe it's time for her to do something else. She just doesn't seem that excited about skating anymore.

    As far as her 7th place, it was deserved. This constant complaint that she is being treated badly by the judges is ridiculous. She was third after the short program, so if the judges really didn't like her they could have found a way to place her lower. The truth is she just doesn't have good technique on her jumps and it shows up at the competitions and especially when others do skate better.

  3. #83

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    My complaint, and I believe this is the more common complaint on this board since nationals, is NOT that she was treated badly by judges but that others were treated with much more kindness. Specifcally, UR's ignored, PCS pumped up, etc.
    Last edited by Coco; 01-30-2013 at 11:09 PM.
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  4. #84

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    I was very sad for Mirai and thought that the judging was very unfair, for reasons that others have already articulated. One idea I have for Mirai is for her to skate to Firebird for her long program, the music she skated to for Bebe Liang's entry in that choreography competition. Who is her choreographer these days? Maybe she need a change. I do think she should keep her short program. I also think she should get rid of the over-the-boot tights. I know that sounds trivial, but the white-boot look is classic and just makes a program look so much better on the ice. The real key to Mirai's future is totally out of her hands because it depends so much on the US getting three spots for the Olympics.

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I think lots of good points have been made, starting with

    Ever since she started to grow/develop, she has had a problem with underrotations. Her basic technique looks pretty good, but she just cannot get high enough and/or rotate fast enough to get the triples around.

    I don't think she is being punished for "leaving Frank" per se. After all, it was really him who left her. If she is being punished, it is for the general perception that she is simply not giving it her all. I guess not being willing to follow your coach is part of that (Kristi Y moved all the way to Canada when her coach moved). To me, Mirai has for some time looked like she does not work hard enough on off-ice conditioning and would benefit from dropping just a few pounds. At this level, skating needs to be your full-time job. That means spending at least 6 (7 or 8 is better) hours a day skating, training dance, and doing off ice weights/aerobics.

    IMO what she mostly needs is to grow up mentally/emotionally. She needs to decide how much she wants it and that means growing up and moving past her childhood. So far, she has not shown that she is willing to sacrifice much for the sake of her skating. Still at home with Mom and Dad, working with her childhood coach instead of finding the best available coach wherever he/she is, still looking like she could be in better shape, still working with a fairly weak dressmaker, etc, etc. Wagner's career didn't really start to take off until she moved across the country to work with her new coach. I think it reflected a mental commitment to leave her safety zone, stop hedging her bets, give up the other things in life to better focus on her skating career. Nagasu has yet to show that kind of commitment.
    You cover it all. Echos my assessment 100 percent. Time is short. She has no more time to waste. (I might add that there is not another skater that I wish & hope for success more than Mirai. As talented as she is, she must not doubt or dawdle in her resolve to be the best. )

  6. #86
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    I think the largest limiting factor for Nagasu is finances. Plain and simple. If she can not afford to move away from home, she has to find what works for her locally.

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    I agree that she seems to have significant problems with underrotations now, but there was definitely a time when she seemed to have already fixed them. Take 2011 4CC for example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HGYZYnxy6s

    All the jumps looked clean and fully rotated. I think what's frustrating for her is that she knows she's capable of rotating them, but it doesn't happen. During nationals you could tell that she knew she was underrotating jumps and it just took the spark out of her performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by Susan M View Post
    I think lots of good points have been made, starting with

    Ever since she started to grow/develop, she has had a problem with underrotations. Her basic technique looks pretty good, but she just cannot get high enough and/or rotate fast enough to get the triples around.

  8. #88
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    Take 2011 4CC for example. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HGYZYnxy6s
    She looks lighter there than she has for the last couple seasons. Even a just a few extra pounds can make a lot of difference in successful jumping.

    I don't think she has that "it" factor at all. In fact since Sasha left in 2006 we haven't had a skater with that "it" factor.
    I'd agree she doesn't have as much "it" as Sasha, but when she is skating confidently she does have an extra sparkle and natural style that makes her more watchable than most. I think that's why folks are so frustrated with her. Someone up thread said she is putting in more training hours nowadays than she did in recent years, so I guess we can still hope. It isn't really fair to write her off after an event where she was sick.

  9. #89
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    She always seems thoroughly bored with herself when she is skating. So much for "it" factor.

  10. #90
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    I thought she looked fine during her SP. She gave more personality than people seem to be giving her credit for. It felt a little guarded when I watched her on Ice Network, but once I watched NBC's broadcast I noticed a bit more spark and energy from her in that performance.

    Her LP was a bit flat but I'd attribute that not only to nerves but her illness. It's not an excuse really b/c the program, while a massive step up from that choreographic abortion "Spartacus", was not that entertaining or exciting...but to be fair very few people had good LPs that night in terms of choreography. Take Gracie: if her jumps were MIA like in the SP, her performance would have fallen flat too b/c not only was her program blah, but she was devoid of emotion throughout the majority it. Her jumps make her exciting...as far as choreography and performing, I'd put her right in line with the rest of the debuting seniors, and behind quite a few of them. Mirai hasn't had a good LP in a very long time...probably since Carmen. And her Carmen wasn't anything spectacular to be honest, it was just delivered very well which made it stand out.

    I know Mirai had mistakes in the LP but, to reiterate what people have said several times, I feel as though she was punished more for her mistakes than others were punished for theirs. It's like the judges/callers turned their heads the other way for mistakes made by Ashley, Gracie and Agnes; however, any mistakes made by Mirai were penalized. It'd be fine if everyone had been scored fairly across the board...but when one skater is hit hard for mistakes while others skim by, it calls the whole competition into question b/c the judging is supposed to be impartial or at least consistent. There were inconsistencies with the judging of nationals this year and, unfortunately, Mirai got the short end of the stick...

  11. #91

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    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    Yep, Frank still has a lot of influence with the judges.....
    Having Frank by her side didn't help her at 2010 Worlds, where she ended up in 7th, I think, after being 1st in the short program. It was a very similar situation to the result this year at Nationals.

  12. #92
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    This years nats really is a similar situation to 2010 worlds. Both competitions she ended up mid-170s and was just about three points (one downgrade!) away from a medal.
    Quote Originally Posted by giselle23 View Post
    Having Frank by her side didn't help her at 2010 Worlds, where she ended up in 7th, I think, after being 1st in the short program. It was a very similar situation to the result this year at Nationals.

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.Cooper View Post
    I think the largest limiting factor for Nagasu is finances. Plain and simple. If she can not afford to move away from home, she has to find what works for her locally.
    Yes, not everyone has wealthy parent's, and can follow coaches' all over the country........

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I know Mirai had mistakes in the LP but, to reiterate what people have said several times, I feel as though she was punished more for her mistakes than others were punished for theirs. It's like the judges/callers turned their heads the other way for mistakes made by Ashley, Gracie and Agnes; however, any mistakes made by Mirai were penalized. It'd be fine if everyone had been scored fairly across the board...but when one skater is hit hard for mistakes while others skim by, it calls the whole competition into question b/c the judging is supposed to be impartial or at least consistent. There were inconsistencies with the judging of nationals this year and, unfortunately, Mirai got the short end of the stick...
    Please, no more conspiracy theories. Nagasu cheated her jumps more then 1/4 (1/2 on loop) so she got penalised. The other skaters you mentioned didn't. So they didn't get penalised.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    She always seems thoroughly bored with herself when she is skating. So much for "it" factor.
    How animated would you look if you skated sick?!

  16. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.Cooper View Post
    I think the largest limiting factor for Nagasu is finances. Plain and simple. If she can not afford to move away from home, she has to find what works for her locally.
    How sad. If true, then what a huge difference it could make if US federation would step up in similar situations. People would not only have the means, but feel the boost. On the other hand, having to fight an unfair battle can be disheartening.

    We often forget athlete should commpete in figure skating, not coach catching, image PRing, or nerve holding. Some thrive under pressure, but some flourish when supported. And it would be nice, for a change, if everyone was given the best possible conditions to be the best skater they can be.

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    How animated would you look if you skated sick?!
    Of course. But I meant in general and not just at 2013 US Nationals.

  18. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.Cooper View Post
    I think the largest limiting factor for Nagasu is finances. Plain and simple. If she can not afford to move away from home, she has to find what works for her locally.
    IIRC, Frank offered her a place to stay gratis with a local family in Palm Springs to cut down on her commute, but she (or her family) refused it. So I'm not sure how much finances were/are the issue. It's also not clear if she turned it down, or her parents (there was speculation her mom didn't want her to move away).

  19. #99

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    Oh Ziggy, I love you but but but THEY DID cheat their jumps more than 1/4!

    Gracie's foot came down FORWARDS on the 3t in her sp combo. She was only hit with a < instead of a <<.

    Ashley's lutz was dubious at best. It should have been <. The loop that she fell on, I can't tell.

    Agnes - I'll be honest and say I don't care enough to watch over and over. (! bad coco! she's such a nice person!)

    But back to the original point, all the downgrades that happened at US Nationals were NOT called. Why were some skaters called and others weren't? I don't see a vendetta or a plan to sink someone in the standings, but I bet there is some pre-judging going on. It's cognitive psych 101 that you see what you expect to see or want to see.

    There should be random computer generated reviews in addition to the voluntary caller driven reviews.

    If you are only looking for the 9 velociraptors you created, you're never going to find out about all the baby velociraptors they are making. (That's a Jurassic Park reference. I love me some Jeff Goldblum.)
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  20. #100

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    Based on the information provided on Skate Radio, a very large number of the ladies' triples were reviewed for underrotation by the technical panel. I don't have any reason to think that they applied different standards to different skaters. There is only one camera used for the video reviews, however, so some iffy jumps could get a pass because of the angle of view.

    Mirai was working hard on a number of difficult combinations in the practices: 2A3T, 3T3T, 3F3T, and even 3Lz3T. The jumps looked rotated or barely under to the naked eye, though to be sure I'd need a video I could look at frame-by-frame. The rotation definitely looked sharper than in what I saw at last year's practices. However, triple-triples are very hard to rotate, and you never know what will happen under the pressure of competition. I was very pleased that Mirai got full credit for the 3T3T in the short program, but I was concerned about the longer free skate since it was reported that she had gotten sick the week before Nationals, and some respiratory symptoms were still evident.

    If Mirai continues with her training regimen and is healthy for next year's Nationals, she can be much higher in the standings in Boston.

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