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  1. #361
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Maybe you just have me on ignore, or selectively ignoring....and I know i'm sounding like a stuck record here, but WHO. WOULD. YOU. SEND. INSTEAD?
    WHY DOES ANYONE NEED TO BE SENT???

    Not all skaters who can receive international assignments do. USFS often doesn't send skaters to all competitions.

    I don't understand why Caroline Zhang got assigned repeatedly to Skate America. Lysacek sells tickets, and he's the reigning Olympic champion who has been training seriously this season (and possibly the last), so his assignments are understandable. I don't think that because bad or misguided decisions were made in the past means that bad or misguided decisions should be made now.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    P.S. I would like to see the quote where Czisny's team "made it clear" they wanted international assignments for her. I thought it was the opposite: they'd made it clear they knew she wasn't ready.
    This article Dungjen mentions "there is talk" of sending her to Nice: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2013/08/26/58200968
    This article she mentions that why she won't be on the GP she hopes to be ready for internationals in the fall: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news

    Of course everything is peppered with "if she is ready", but these, along with other things I read but don't feel like finding, gave me the distinct feeling Alissa wanted to be on the international circuit this fall. (Which makes sense- the chance of making an Olympic team if you haven't competed out of the country that year are small. Even if Rachel has the qualifying score, just the politics of skating make it that she really probably needs the senior B to get any favorable judging at Nationals.)

  3. #363
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    I often dont agree with USFS assignments. This year, USFS is sending many skaters they norrmally wont send to sr B, including Baga, Lam and Flatt. Whether one agrees with the policy, at least it does not seeem to be favoritism

  4. #364

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    WHY DOES ANYONE NEED TO BE SENT???
    Apparently you missed the part in my post where I was specifically asking Ziggy who he thought should be sent since he has repeatedly said that he would send other people in place of Flatt or that she is taking the spot of other skaters.

    To object to Rachel being sent, and think that no-one should have been sent, IMO, shows that any rational argument is out of the window and it's simply that poster's own dislike of Rachel's skating....why should anyone care that she's been sent if the alternative is no-one would have been sent?

    Hell must truly have frozen over as I find myself defending Rachel freakin Flatt
    Last edited by antmanb; 10-15-2013 at 04:17 PM.

  5. #365
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    If "no one should be sent" then I assume that is not directed against Flatt in particular, since it includes Baga, who would notnhave been sent in previous years. Baga is a borderline case, as is Flatt. That is why there are disagreements

  6. #366

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    If "no one should be sent" then I assume that is not directed against Flatt in particular, since it includes Baga, who would notnhave been sent in previous years. Baga is a borderline case, as is Flatt. That is why there are disagreements
    I am hoping that USFSA is "spreading the wealth" this year. The "conditions" have changed and it's not going to serve them well not to allow as many skaters as possible to earn the required qualifying score.. For example, let's say Flatt or Baga comes in 4th or 5th at Nationals. Ashley goes to Olympics and wins... then decides "take the medal and run" You know have 4th place needing to go to Worlds.. or injuries occur and you have 4th and 5th needed for Worlds or even one of them for Olympics. If there's a 'snowball's chance' then IMHO we need to get them out there and get the required scores (NOTE: This is all hypothetical. I have not been blessed with the ability to predict the future!).

  7. #367

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    Both Rachael Flatt and Kiri Baga have yet to attain the short program TES minimum for 2014 Worlds (26.00) so that's a goal for Cup of Nice this month. They both have the Worlds FS minimum and Olympic minimums.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    Maybe you just have me on ignore, or selectively ignoring....and I know i'm sounding like a stuck record here, but WHO. WOULD. YOU. SEND. INSTEAD?
    Either a strong Junior who wants some Senior international experience and ISU ranking points (there are plenty) or preferably skaters who placed outside top 4 in a tough Sectionals field (like Lauren Dinh or Carly Gold). The US Championships qualification policy is very unfair (especially given how easy it is to club hop) and it would go some way towards making up for it. Those skaters are nowhere near Flatt's level when she's at hear peak but she's just managed to land 3 triples between two program at Regionals so .

    But yes, now being given more context, I can also understand why Flatt was sent.

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Lysacek sells tickets, and he's the reigning Olympic champion who has been training seriously this season (and possibly the last), so his assignments are understandable.
    Well maybe you understand them. I think it's time for USFS to tell him to suck it up and to not assign him to anything until he proves he's actually going to show up. Or maybe he can be assigned to Coupe de Nice.
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  10. #370

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    Quote Originally Posted by antmanb View Post
    To be fair that wasn't "some" people it was specifically one person (who nearly everyone disagreed with) and I think that person thinks that skating is judged by unicorns, using magical rainbow rules, not judges using the IJS.
    Hi antmanb. I assume you are referring to me, Nadine White, when you mention unicorns and magic. Lol, yes, I do believe in such, and had to lol when I saw your post because for my birthday earlier this month I received a white unicorn from Toscano that I've had my eye for a long long time for my garden.

    Back to Rach, here's hoping she and the others do well at Coupe de Nice, as I know Rachael doesn't score as well internationally as she does domestically. So here's hoping for the best!

  11. #371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post
    This article Dungjen mentions "there is talk" of sending her to Nice: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/2013/08/26/58200968
    This article she mentions that why she won't be on the GP she hopes to be ready for internationals in the fall: http://web.icenetwork.com/news/artic...&vkey=ice_news
    IOW, she wanted to be ready for Coupe de Nice and hoped she would be months ago. That's very different than "I was ready but USFS wouldn't send me" said very recently.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  12. #372
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    IOW, she wanted to be ready for Coupe de Nice and hoped she would be months ago. That's very different than "I was ready but USFS wouldn't send me" said very recently.
    I never said she said that. The only thing I said was that Alissa's team was hoping for internationals. Mostly because I still don't know why Alissa is being compared to Flatt. If we want to keep that comparison going: Alissa posted higher scores than Flatt at regionals; so arguably she could have been sent. I think it is appropriate she isn't, because she has the minimum scores and is clearly not fit enough.

    And I have no idea what IOW means

  13. #373

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Either a strong Junior who wants some Senior international experience and ISU ranking points (there are plenty) or preferably skaters who placed outside top 4 in a tough Sectionals field (like Lauren Dinh or Carly Gold). The US Championships qualification policy is very unfair (especially given how easy it is to club hop) and it would go some way towards making up for it. Those skaters are nowhere near Flatt's level when she's at hear peak but she's just managed to land 3 triples between two program at Regionals so .

    But yes, now being given more context, I can also understand why Flatt was sent.
    Carly Gold's score at the Madison Open was 16 points less than Flatt at regionals, so I don't understand why you'd want to send her instead. I think all the juniors who merit international assignments were on the JGP. If the spot at Nice is to be filled, Flatt is the best choice.

  14. #374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skittl1321 View Post

    And I have no idea what IOW means
    In other words

  15. #375
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    Quote Originally Posted by MacMadame View Post
    Well maybe you understand them. I think it's time for USFS to tell him to suck it up and to not assign him to anything until he proves he's actually going to show up. Or maybe he can be assigned to Coupe de Nice.
    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    If "no one should be sent" then I assume that is not directed against Flatt in particular, since it includes Baga, who would notnhave been sent in previous years. Baga is a borderline case, as is Flatt. That is why there are disagreements
    I doubt many were thinking of Baga; I certainly wasn't. I've been arguing that they should save the money instead of investing it in a skater who has not committed to the training -- I don't consider a "lighter" schedule a Stanford, compared to an intentionally heavy one during an injury period, to be particularly committed -- and has said she's doing it for her personal satisfaction and that she's not thinking about the Olympic team. That does not apply to Baga.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  16. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I doubt many were thinking of Baga; I certainly wasn't. I've been arguing that they should save the money instead of investing it in a skater who has not committed to the training -- I don't consider a "lighter" schedule a Stanford, compared to an intentionally heavy one during an injury period, to be particularly committed -- and has said she's doing it for her personal satisfaction and that she's not thinking about the Olympic team. That does not apply to Baga.
    Many skaters in the American ISP are taking college courses (or going to high school) either full-time or part-time. By your logic, USFSA should cut all of their funding and keep them all at home.

  17. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    I've been arguing that they should save the money instead of investing it in a skater who has not committed to the training -- I don't consider a "lighter" schedule a Stanford, compared to an intentionally heavy one during an injury period, to be particularly committed -- and has said she's doing it for her personal satisfaction and that she's not thinking about the Olympic team. That does not apply to Baga.
    I call changing your course load being committed. As for skating for personal satisfaction and not the Olympic team, that's just having realistic expectations. Baga can say she is trying for the Olympic team all she wants (assuming she has said that) but reality is that she has no shot at it.

    You have tried to paint Flatt as a dilettante, in other places referring to her skating as "part time" and saying she had no coach. But, in fact, these articles show that she has a coach -- two of them -- and is skating full time and has changed her schedule at Stanford in order to make skating work better for her. That's not playing at skating or not being serious.

    She has learned from past mistakes of trying to skate at too many different rinks with too many different coaches and with too many other commitments, too.

    USFS will be scrambling if Flatt ends up in a place where she is the next person in line to be assigned to 4CCs but can't be sent because she hasn't got the minimum SP TES. It would be dumb of them not to send her to Coupe de Nice IMO especially given what a minimal investment it would take.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  18. #378
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    Flatt has the 4C's and Olympics minimum TES scores. She also has the Worlds TES minimum scores. I don't know how many times I or Sylvia have to re-post this in this thread for it to sink in. No one will be scrambling except possibly Flatt (because she's in the middle of a semester) if she's assigned to 4C's. If all of the other skaters falter, she's already qualified for 4C's, and if a very fortuitous series of events happens, and she makes the Olympic team, she should be able to make the Worlds TES minimums there, and if she doesn't, by ISU standards, she doesn't deserve to skate at Worlds. If anyone could make the argument for being sent because she didn't have the scores due to injury last year, it would be Czisny. (I don't know if she's not ready or if she's been denied.)

    "Dilettante" is a ridiculous term to describe what I'm saying: she's not noodling around the rink when she feels like it. However, this is not a year when the field is so weak that someone who is not focused on the Nationals podium is likely to make it or Top six at Nationals, unless many skaters falter, and I don't think that USFS should invest in her, unless they want a benchmark in how an international panel assesses her (although I don't give them that much credit). In other years where the field was weak/filled with skaters who could be 5th or 15th at Worlds, she would be more than a distant insurance policy: she'd be a contender.

    Taking classes part-time or taking classes/working and having proven over time that they are consistently capable of getting competitive results is another story.
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  19. #379
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    I think Sylvia said Flatt has the Olympic and 4CC minimums already?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carolla5501 View Post
    I am hoping that USFSA is "spreading the wealth" this year. The "conditions" have changed and it's not going to serve them well not to allow as many skaters as possible to earn the required qualifying score.. For example, let's say Flatt or Baga comes in 4th or 5th at Nationals. Ashley goes to Olympics and wins... then decides "take the medal and run" You know have 4th place needing to go to Worlds.. or injuries occur and you have 4th and 5th needed for Worlds or even one of them for Olympics. If there's a 'snowball's chance' then IMHO we need to get them out there and get the required scores (NOTE: This is all hypothetical. I have not been blessed with the ability to predict the future!).
    I agree with USFS policy in general this year re: sending as many as possible to get a qualifying score, as long as it is not at the expense of future funding (and I honestly don't know what financial siatuation USFS is).

    Going by the results of New England regionals, I'd say Flatt is likely to do better than Kiri Baga at their assignment.

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    ^ But I thought I read an article (think it was NBC?) that said she was taking a FULL load at Stanford this fall, which is why I assumed she wasn't even going to bother with a comeback this year.

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