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  1. #261
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    Going to Senior B's allows JGP skaters to compete in front of senior judges and with international senior skaters, as well as getting mileage on a senior length program and levels on the last part.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  2. #262
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    In theory it would be nice for Edmunds or Wang to get to experience a Senior B this year. However, USFS already has paid for each of them to compete in 2 JGP assignments this fall and I think it would be hard to justify spending more from their international competition budget to give either of them an extra Senior B when both elected to compete internationally as juniors this fall.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    For most at the lower levels skating is a hobby.
    I'm wondering how well you know skating at the lower levels to be able to generalize like this? (ETA: This sounds snarky but it's a genuine question I have.)
    Last edited by Sylvia; 10-03-2013 at 12:18 AM.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  3. #263
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDilemma View Post
    I'm baffled that anyone wants to do it at this level when they are not fully committed to it because of the massive cost of competing at this level in this sport.
    It's only massive if you want it to be. As far as I can tell, Rachel is being pretty low key about it. She choreographed her own programs so she saved herself a bunch of $$ there. I wouldn't be surprised if her costs are about even with her appearance fees at this point. Though I don't really see any evidence that she isn't committed to this equal to the level of her expenditure of time and money.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    Johnny Weir showed the kind of pride I'm talking about when he withdrew in the middle of COR


    I'm sorry, but if that is your idea of 'refusing to go out on a low note,' you have your head so far up your ass that there isn't the slightly possibility of something intelligible coming out of there.
    "Cupcakes are bullshit. And everyone knows it. A cupcake is just a muffin with clown puke topping." -Charlie Brooker

  4. #264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    In theory it would be nice for Edmunds or Wang to get to experience a Senior B this year. However, USFS already has paid for each of them to compete in 2 JGP assignments this fall and I think it would be hard to justify spending more from their international competition budget to give either of them an extra Senior B when both elected to compete internationally as juniors this fall.


    I'm wondering how well you know skating at the lower levels to be able to generalize like this?
    In answer to your first point, because they or others like them are the future of figure skating USA. And because Team USA's rivals, at least Russia in a big way, are doing it and giving their girls important senior experience.

    In answer to your second point, your implied point that I don't know nuttin' about unseen lower level skating is perfectly correct. However, I was simply picking up, and partially taking issue with, Gkelly's statement that skating at any level below international competition is "absolutely" a personal hobby. I take Gkelly as an authority on all things skating... if not an "absolute" one. Please correct me if i am wrong about that. Still, it would have been more judicious of me to insert the word "perhaps." I am honored by your close reading of my argument.

    i will bow out of this discussion now, having said my piece and answered enough critics IMO. Carry on.

  5. #265
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    Is this the same Rachael that had hidden her injury, didn't notify the committee, went to Worlds instead of letting the substitute a chance to compete at Worlds that year? And if I recall right, she did poorly causing US one spot in the following year?

  6. #266
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    Flatt was the one who got caught out for hiding an injury in 2011. However, the last time there were three US Ladies at Worlds was 2008, where Meissner, Liang, and Wagner placed 7th, 10th, and 16th and earned two spots for 2009, where Flatt finished 5th and Czisny 11th. In 2010, Nagasu placed 7th and Flatt 9th, earning two again. In 2011 Czisny placed 5th and Flatt placed 12th, almost the opposite of 2009.

    Flatt was never part of a combination that lost a spot for US Ladies.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  7. #267

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Flatt was the one who got caught out for hiding an injury in 2011. However, the last time there were three US Ladies at Worlds was 2008, where Meissner, Liang, and Wagner placed 7th, 10th, and 16th and earned two spots for 2009, where Flatt finished 5th and Czisny 11th. In 2010, Nagasu placed 7th and Flatt 9th, earning two again. In 2011 Czisny placed 5th and Flatt placed 12th, almost the opposite of 2009.

    Flatt was never part of a combination that lost a spot for US Ladies.
    No, but she was not in condition to be at that competition, and she did not help win back a third spot. And hiding her injury was just not good sportsmanship.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  8. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spun Silver View Post
    This is a good point, but I was talking about a different kind of pride -- a high respect for the sport, oneself, and the fans that makes the athlete refuse (as far as possible) to go out on a low note. Obviously Johnny was mistaken about his competitiveness and he recognized it early in the season.

    I don't necessarily agree with this. For most at the lower levels skating is a hobby. For some, the lower levels are the stepping stones to the elite level, and that is where the assignment of spots is angsty.


    Well, my personal opinion is that someone like Polina Edmunds or Angela Wang would benefit greatly from a low-pressure senior B international assignment this year.
    If I recall correctly, the skaters have to declare prior to the start of the international season (when they fill out their federation's commitment to competing paperwork), the skaters have to declare if they are going to compete either at the Jr level or the Sr level internationally. I believe pairs still have the option of doing both? But not singles. So, with Flatt not having any assignments at the start of the international season when the initial JGP and SGP assignments were made, the skaters mentioned above...Edmunds and Wang, I am quite sure, did not take into consideration if Flatt was part of the puzzle this season. I am quite sure that they sat down with their coaches and families, looked at what their goals are for the season, both internationally and domestically, and decided what was best for them. So, if I am not mistaken, they are not eligible for a Sr B this autumn. Unless the rules changed in the last year or so.

    Re: Weir w/d from the middle of an event, and not due to injury. Athletes know if they have achieved their goals in training and if they are prepared. So, either he needed to participate in the complete event (SP and LP) and deal with the consequences of being poorly prepared, or have not attended. IMO, it takes more guts to go thru a humbling experience and learn from the school of hard knocks than it does to walk half way thru the door, decide that you don't like what you see, and then turn around and leave. I can make the analogy to Ashley Wagner. She decided that she did not like the view where she was standing back in 2010 and 2011, and opened a new door and walked right thru. My two cents worth.

  9. #269

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Flatt was the one who got caught out for hiding an injury in 2011. However, the last time there were three US Ladies at Worlds was 2008, where Meissner, Liang, and Wagner placed 7th, 10th, and 16th and earned two spots for 2009, where Flatt finished 5th and Czisny 11th. In 2010, Nagasu placed 7th and Flatt 9th, earning two again. In 2011 Czisny placed 5th and Flatt placed 12th, almost the opposite of 2009.

    Flatt was never part of a combination that lost a spot for US Ladies.
    No, but she was not in condition to be at that competition, and she did not help win back a third spot. And hiding her injury was just not good sportsmanship.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  10. #270
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    I think the 2008 team -- Meissner and Liang at least -- did a little better than how they had competed that year. It was Wagner who competed worse than how she competed all year. I think the 2010 team did okay at worlds too, with both making top ten.

    The 2009, 2011 and 2012 teams had somewhat disappointing results--half of the team didn't make top ten.

  11. #271
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    After Mirai won bronze at 4CC in 2011, a Alissa-Mirai combination at worlds would have had a good chance at getting back the 3rd spot. [I thought Rachael was judged too lenient at nationals that year too].

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    When can we start blaming Flatt for the government shutdown?

  13. #273
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    Quote Originally Posted by eurodance2001 View Post
    I'm amazed at the number of people that are ragging on Rachael.. Obviosuly, $$ is not an issue for the Flatts otherwise her parents would've told her "enough already" and that's it. So, if they can pay for her to do what she is doing and she wants to skate, then so what? Good for her if she can do it all and be happy with her results! Geez.. Let the girl go out on her own terms; she will be done when she is ready.
    I'm not...

    This crap has been going on ever since she came on the scene. Long before "tibiagate". She is just not popular on FSU (she never was) - simple as that.

  14. #274

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    Rachael had the unfortunate problem of not being a long-limbed sylph like Alissa or at least a petite and elegant angel like Michelle or Kristi. She was a fireplug body type and more athletic than elegant; hell, I've known skaters who insisted she was "fat" when she was nothing of the kind. She just wasn't the aesthetically pleasing skater that other females in her generation were. So, she wasn't as deserving of praise or her accomplishments. And now, like Evan Lysacek, she's an over the hill skater who was lucky more than skilled, won medals and kudos that she didn't deserve, and she should just go away and not inflict herself on the skating world anymore. Like Evan, she is not popular here, so hearing about her now when her skills are not what they used to be is just a waste of time and ice according to some, which is really very sad. I wish her well, I hope she enjoys her season and whenever she goes out, goes out on her own terms, not those of fans who never cared for her in the first place.
    "Once you've skated together long enough, and you're really good friends, you can close your eyes, put your hand out and she's right there." Joe Dolkiewicz, 2011 US Novice Pairs Bronze Medalist

  15. #275
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    I wonder what were the criteria that USFS used to pick skaters to Nice? It's almost like the gift/vacation for non contenders?? And we are talking about Olympic year and USFS are funding athletes for this event just for fun??....I can't see what will it do for US sending Flatt there. How did they pick her? Was it base on previous International or National result? Did she compete in any of those last year?? I thought the skaters had to perform well enough to earn the assignment?? I can see former Olympic or World gold medalists ( Evan or Yuna or Miki) could get free ride for assignments, but not sure about Flatt. I see no consistency in picking athletes by USFS....always a guessing game....

  16. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by AxelAnnie View Post
    No, but she was not in condition to be at that competition, and she did not help win back a third spot. And hiding her injury was just not good sportsmanship.
    Hiding her injury was against USFS rules. She was hardly the first to do it, but she talked about it and was caught. It was a stupid thing to do, but the lesson is for skaters to hide injuries even more and not talk about it. I don't think she should have gone. I think she is old enough and smart enough not to have gone, but she was training under an influential coach with a track record of not caring about his skaters' injuries, and plenty of adults have buckled to demanding bosses in tough situations.
    "'Is this new BMW-designed sled the ultimate sledding machine for Langdon and Holcomb?' Leigh Diffey asked before the pair cruised to victory. I don’t know, but I know that sled is the ultimate Olympic Games product placement.." -- Jen Chaney

  17. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by icellist View Post
    After Mirai won bronze at 4CC in 2011, a Alissa-Mirai combination at worlds would have had a good chance at getting back the 3rd spot. [I thought Rachael was judged too lenient at nationals that year too].
    Yes, but who knows which Mirai would've shown up at '11 Worlds. It could just as easily have been splat city

  18. #278

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    Mirai had the worst long program of her life at 2010 worlds, and still beat Rachael by 8 points overall.

    Did Rachael ever beat Mirai internationally, when they were skating in the same competition?
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    Did Rachael ever beat Mirai internationally, when they were skating in the same competition?
    2008 Junior Worlds, 2008 Skate America, 2009 CoC - the first two by comfortable margins. They didn't skate in that many international events together as seniors.

    I always thought that it was hypocritical how the USFSA went after Rachael when two years earlier Evan Lysacek was celebrated for winning Worlds despite having a stress fracture (which was not disclosed publicly in advance of the event). His risk paid off, hers didn't - but they did pretty much the same thing. If you send a message that it's OMG so brave to compete with injury, don't be surprised when it affects other people's choices and decisions.

    I imagine Rachael understands what her prospects are for this season, and is skating because that's what she wants and loves. I hope things will go well for her.

  20. #280
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    Good for Rachael. I'm not sure what shape she'll be in after not competing for so long and having a heavy school schedule, but she's always seemed to be a hard worker with a good attitude and a good role model for younger skaters.
    "The Devil is joining in, and that's never a good sign." Phil Liggett

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