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  1. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    The Gold team had her put out that tweet to do some damage control
    How do you know this?
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceman View Post
    Gold does have a pr machine, IMG. Saying she is a star after this one competition is absurd and those doing it might have egg on their faces after the competition this week. She did succeed in licking some of the icing off Ashley's cake. If Gold turns out to be as "gold" as some expect, Ashely's reign may be as short lived as those other ladies in recent years.
    Quotable Quote, Iceman! Maybe even the top quote of the Championships?

    Wading into this thread with my eyes open, but maybe I should close them and take cover.

    Gracie will be fine. Ashley will be fine. Allow them to breathe and support them equally please. We've got some U.S. ladies contenders, and let's just be thankful and enjoy it. Why stir up the "intense rivalry" pot? Why give USFS more fodder for favoritism antics?

    As it is now, up on IceNetwork there's a poll asking: Which performance from the 2013 U.S. Figure Skating Championships was the most unforgettable?

    I picked Meryl and Charlie myself. I don't see that anyone else topped them performance-wise, magical-wise, transcendant-wise, so I refuse to believe that the IN poll results accurately reflect the reality. Right now, the poll is stating:

    42% Gracie Gold fs; 29% Max Aaron fs; and only 27% Meryl and Charlie free dance. What!? I can't believe that. GG PR working overtime?! It's gotta be a Rigged Conspiracy!!!


    BTW, I'm not betting on the odds for either, but I believe that Ashley and Gracie both can do a lot of positive damage in the World standings and I absolutely 100% support them both. Gracie is learning how to compete and she's thrown down the gauntlet, but she needs to stay cool, and walk quietly with her big 3/3 sticks and textbook jump technique. Also, I hope Gracie and her team will lose the simplistic marching sequence in her fs and come up with something more interesting. She needs to continue honing herself and maturing, and not get ahead of herself. Vs. Gracie, I feel that Ashley is the most mature in terms of presentation, sportsmanship and competition experience. Plus Ash is a spirited veteran and a fighter. You Go Ladies!!
    Last edited by aftershocks; 02-02-2013 at 07:42 PM.

  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by centerpt1 View Post
    No one griped when Ashley broke through last year
    Plenty of people griped about things Ashley said and did last year.

    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Actually Kwan was 7th after the quali rounds, but why let facts get in the way of a good rant
    Or, as in this case, a lame rant.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  4. #164
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    [QUOTE=aftershocks;3824334]It's gotta be a Rigged Conspiracy!!!
    QUOTE]

    I know you're joking, but that's just a stupid poll. Who cares? However, Nationals should not be rigged...........

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Actually Kwan was 7th after the quali rounds, but why let facts get in the way of a good rant
    Post of the day.

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Lord knows when skating was popular-- in the 80s and 90s-- the top ladies and their mothers were down to earth and honest.
    ????

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jammers View Post
    But there is no excuse for a country like the USA to not be competitive and finally get a world class Lady again. Not with as many girls that get into the sport.
    Most US families cannot afford the cost of competitive figure skating, and US skaters are not subsidized in any way by the government, as in other countries.

  8. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    It's gotta be a Rigged Conspiracy!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by demetriosj View Post
    I know you're joking, but that's just a stupid poll. Who cares? However, Nationals should not be rigged...........
    Ah yes. And definitely it's a silly, throwaway spur-of-the-moment poll. Still, I would have had Meryl and Charlie ahead. Maybe it goes to show that more people (or at least the people who voted) are more into the singles events than the ice dance event. As far as "rigged conspiracy," I was cheekily referring to the poll, not to the actual Nationals competition nor to the judging.

  9. #169
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    A bad loser is Sluskaya running off crying after her 2006 Olympics FS (and reportedly throwing her bronze medal on the floor or in the garbage).
    A good thing I was never a skater-That bronze medal would have been kicked, stomped on, spit on, tossed in the toilet, peed on, and flushed. Now that's being a sore loser.

    Gracie is fine. She's a pretty girl with red lipstick who jumps well. She needs her hair fixed more than she needs damage control.

  10. #170
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    Yeah, I fail to see how running off crying makes somebody a poor loser. That's ridiculous.

    Throwing a medal on the floor or in the trash, sure. Running off crying? No way.

  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Actually, looking up the levels, which are done by the technical panels, by the way, so it was a true Kwanspiracy to hold her up, there were very few skaters that were all IJS at the time. Kostner, who was less "all IJS" than Kwan, beat her to the podium. Two that were most IJS friendly in 2005 were the gold and silver medalist, but Arakawa, the next in line, faultered badly in the FS. The ones whom she beat in Moscow, not so much, and not many skaters were landing their stuff in both the SP and FS. But why let a few facts get in the way?

    When Kwan competed with IJS, there weren't more than a handful of IJS-friendly skaters period, and now, nine seasons into it, they are the big majority levels-wise. It's one thing to argue that a skater from the past was already IJS-friendly based on actual things they did in their 6.0 programs, like Ruh's spins, for example. It's silly to argue that skater X from that era by definition would never have been able to master IJS had it been the norm when they were competing, because the large majority who had low levels in the beginning of IJS increased their levels to become competitive, and the skaters born into the system start out aiming for those levels. Even Joubert can spin now.
    Marry me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    She'd never get the levels on spins
    Well, the USFSA callers said that she did, but who knows? If she had been trained even as a child under IJS things could have been very different.
    There are a number of successful skaters under IJS who are about as inflexible as Michelle who were able to level up since there are a variety of ways to get a level 3 spin. Few skaters in 2005-2006 understood IJS well enough to maximize their base scores. At the time, many found their levels varying dramatically from competition to competition.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    and her footwork was more arms and smiles than rockers, counters, etc.
    I just can't at your double standard in judging her footwork. For her time, she had among the best footwork for the ladies. Who was receiving higher levels then?

    How is this just "arms and smiles" - by 2005 standards, this was one of the best at the time

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kwr4zH53-bo#t=2m47s

    Sasha and Irina received the same levels (level 2) on their footwork, and both managed to eventually raise it to level 3. Likewise with Carolina Kostner and countless other skaters who started out with lower level footwork. Hell, Joannie Rochette had a level 1 step sequence and raised it to level 3 with positive GOE by 2010. Yet somehow magically to you Michelle is a special case O_O

    In fact, at the 2005 world championships, during the free skate Michelle had the highest GOE of all the ladies on her footwork

    So to sum up:

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    can you even IMAGINE Kwan even coming close to Level 3's for ANYTHING?
    A resounding yes on spirals and footwork.
    Last edited by iarispiralllyof; 02-03-2013 at 11:31 AM.

  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    What's wrong with her being a little feisty and arrogant? She isn't trying out to be your ideal daughter. I don't get why people are treating her like her behavior is unsportsmanlike. I think she sincerely respects Ashley and her rivals, even if she is obviously a little high strung. Like I said, reality and real attitudes are what make life and sports interesting. She doesn't have to be a politician 24/7. Lord knows when skating was popular-- in the 80s and 90s-- the top ladies and their mothers were down to earth and honest. I'm not saying tolerate skaters who intentionally act crazy and disrespectful of others, but don't try to shun every genuine competitive or diva-like attitude that is expressed.
    THIS!

    I can't believe how some still seem to be stuck in the dark ages...I mean, come on - there have been FAR WORSE things said that fans virtually ignore!

  13. #173

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    Quote Originally Posted by leesaleesa View Post
    A good thing I was never a skater-That bronze medal would have been kicked, stomped on, spit on, tossed in the toilet, peed on, and flushed. Now that's being a sore loser.

    Gracie is fine. She's a pretty girl with red lipstick who jumps well. She needs her hair fixed more than she needs damage control.
    You should switch to decaf!

    On Gold, I like the hair, love the jumps, hate the lipstick.

  14. #174

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    Quote Originally Posted by leesaleesa View Post
    A good thing I was never a skater-That bronze medal would have been kicked, stomped on, spit on, tossed in the toilet, peed on, and flushed.
    Umm... do you mind telling why?
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  15. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by aftershocks View Post
    BTW, I'm not betting on the odds for either, but I believe that Ashley and Gracie both can do a lot of positive damage in the World standings and I absolutely 100% support them both. Gracie is learning how to compete and she's thrown down the gauntlet, but she needs to stay cool, and walk quietly with her big 3/3 sticks and textbook jump technique. Also, I hope Gracie and her team will lose the simplistic marching sequence in her fs and come up with something more interesting. She needs to continue honing herself and maturing, and not get ahead of herself. Vs. Gracie, I feel that Ashley is the most mature in terms of presentation, sportsmanship and competition experience. Plus Ash is a spirited veteran and a fighter. You Go Ladies!!
    The good thing about Gracie Gold is she will keep Wagner on her toes nationally. Wagner just NARROWLY avoided getting upset by her and cannot afford to coast along and rely solely on "street cred" each time. Competition is always a good thing, it makes everyone better in the end...

    Zawadzki probably won't be the one to really challenge Wagner since she (AZ) lacks the consistency. But Gold definitely will be nipping at her heels (and perhaps even Hicks might, too, once she establishes herself)

    ETA: of course, this assumes both a) an upward path for the challengers and b) no downward path for Wagner, i.e. she doesn't take herself out of it like Czisny, Flatt, Nagasu, etc.
    Last edited by RD; 02-03-2013 at 02:49 AM.

  16. #176

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    The US has long relied on an ice princess to be the face of figure skating in the country. They're packaged , they're marketing, and they sell not only tickets to events and shows, but also products. Michelle was the spokeswoman for Barbey and Disney, etc., etc., etc. I remember reading about all that way done to package Nancy Kerrigan and to transform her from a blue collar worker's daughter into an ice princess. . .

    Point is, it works - it gets the public interested in the sport and the person. And the US isn't the only country looking for its next bright star, just look at all the hype Chan got in Canada over the years.

    FS just isn't all that popular in the US - even less popular than it is in Canada.

    Having a skater in winning contention to focus on is always a good PR tool. The US could certainly do more to promote the sport - for starters, new NBC commentators. Not to mention how poor the FS coverage is on US networks - even poorer than it is on Canadian networks. If you don't air events, you don't get an audience.

    A star ice princess would undeniably help motivate interest in FS in the US, so it's no surprise that there is an endless search for the 'next one' - at the moment, Gold is the it girl.

  17. #177
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    I do hope it means they will do a better dye job on Gold and get rid of those roots. Her peroxide blond color is just not championship level.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  18. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    ETA: of course, this assumes both a) an upward path for the challengers and b) no downward path for Wagner, i.e. she doesn't take herself out of it like Czisny, Flatt, Nagasu, etc.
    Who said those ladies are all done? Injured and/or inconsistent they are, but we cannot predict their demise yet.

    See, if I were important or chummy enough to be interviewed by Brennan, I would not play into this where is the next ice princess/Disney corporate spokeswoman question. At the least I would have encouraged some sort of interest in rivalry between Agnes and Gracie, and emphasized that Ashley has beaten Mao. I would communicate something that would not put unhelpful expectations on the individual skaters (like a bunch of hoopla about the next princess Gracie, which has unfortunately been driveling out since Alissa under-performed at last year's nats). It is better than what these US old hands did by complaining to Christine that everything sucks because there is no Kwan.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by RD View Post
    The good thing about Gracie Gold is she will keep Wagner on her toes nationally. Wagner just NARROWLY avoided getting upset by her and cannot afford to coast along and rely solely on "street cred" each time. Competition is always a good thing, it makes everyone better in the end...

    Zawadzki probably won't be the one to really challenge Wagner since she (AZ) lacks the consistency. But Gold definitely will be nipping at her heels (and perhaps even Hicks might, too, once she establishes herself)

    ETA: of course, this assumes both a) an upward path for the challengers and b) no downward path for Wagner, i.e. she doesn't take herself out of it like Czisny, Flatt, Nagasu, etc.
    Personally, I don't think Ashley Wagner needs anyone "nipping at her heels at senior Nationals" in order to stoke her competitive fires to be ready to take on the World. Ashley has already experienced many times all the ups and downs of Nationals competition. What's different is that she's now the one on top. And also, U.S. Nationals is the hardest Nationals competition in the World (with Japan, Canada and Russia also among the most difficult depending upon the discipline). I don't think Ashley needed Gracie Gold, nor anyone else to help her realize that defending and winning again at Nationals would not be easy. Ashley knew that going in, and I'm pretty sure she wasn't sitting back reading her press clippings, resting on her laurels, admiring her medal load of last year, and saying to herself, "I got this."

    As Ashley and others have said, trying to defend your title is more difficult than winning it in the first place. Ashley learned a lot and she persevered even not at full strength. In that sense, this Nationals has been good for Ashley. She understands the importance of adding more difficulty to her programs, and I think she will do well at Worlds if she's completely healthy. Ashley is the one who took a hard look at her skating career and decided not to give up on her dreams. She made the necessary sacrifices and got the coaching help she needed to pull everything together with fire and desire. Ashley will keep her own self on her own toes with no assistance needed from any of her competitors.

    Gracie Gold's journey is just beginning, and I think it's helpful for Gracie to have a veteran like Ashley Wagner setting an example as a competitor and as a teammate. Courtney Hicks is a talented jumper who seems to be in a great hurry, but she still has a very long way to go. Agnes is extremely talented too, but sometimes a la Ashley Wagner, there comes a time when as an athlete you've got to take stock of where you stand, what you want, and how hard you're willing to work. And then, you've got to figure out what you need to achieve your goals, how to go about getting what you need, and above all, what you are willing to give up to get what you need.

    As far as "street cred," according to Tara Lipiniski (who recently aptly used that term in a fs context), that's getting into Mao Asada territory ... so 4CCs in Osaka, Japan will indeed be interesting.

    I wouldn't lump Czisny, Flatt, and Nagasu into one dismissive category of "having taken themselves out of it." That doesn't make the least bit of sense to me in regard to describing these former U.S. ladies champions ... not in any way, shape or form.

  20. #180
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    Umm... do you mind telling why?
    I was being facetious. Except for the part where I would have kicked it.
    Last edited by leesaleesa; 02-03-2013 at 04:20 AM.

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