Christine Brennan's Article on USA Ladies: "U.S. women's skating lacks dominant star"

[IceAlisa]

I was one of those not terribly thrilled with Gracie's sour face on learning she was 2nd nor the "deserve to be here with me" comment. Since then she tweeted a really nice message:

I am so honored to be representing USA at Worlds this year with two-time National champ @AshWagner2010!!!!!! #TeamUSA

So while the choice of words was unfortunate at the presser, she may be learning.

[Alex Forrest]

I was one of those not terribly thrilled with Gracie's sour face on learning she was 2nd nor the "deserve to be here with me" comment. Since then she tweeted a really nice message:

So while the choice of words was unfortunate, she may be learning.

Or like Tara, she is getting HEAVY pr. HEAVY. If she places at Worlds, I would bet she's the golden girl for American Olympic skating and commercials. Forget Wagner, especially if she goes back to her two foots and falls. I would not be surprised if Gold now has PR in her training costs. Gold just HAS to nail Worlds. I would not be surprised if she places higher than Wagner now. If she does, then look out for the Gold hype. And frankly, I like her skating. She is Yuna with more turnout and toepoint as far as I'm concerned. The jumps are even, but Gold doesn't flex her ankle awkwardly like Yuna does, and her spirals have a clean line, her spins are more determined, and the jumps are just as huge. I really don't get this Yuna as bestest evah thing. She's a strong competitor, but she's not a compelling skater, if that makes any sense. I was on the phone during Olys with a skating blogger some probably know, and I was like "Yuna has a gorgeous face, a thin, sometimes flexible body, but why in the hell does she skate like she has club feet?" To total agreement. I am not looking forward to Yuna's return, seriously. She can land the jumps but the crazy marks she gets??? Call her Plush2.0 or is it 3.0 at this point?

[TheIronLady]

I was one of those not terribly thrilled with Gracie's sour face on learning she was 2nd nor the "deserve to be here with me" comment. Since then she tweeted a really nice message:

So while the choice of words was unfortunate at the presser, she may be learning.

Why do you want her to learn to be gracious if it's all phony? She is 17, and I think her true personality is formed. What she said at the press conference wasn't awful. It was just a little arrogant. It wasn't like she was being a bad loser. A bad loser is Sluskaya running off crying after her 2006 Olympics FS (and reportedly throwing her bronze medal on the floor or in the garbage).

Personally I think US skating should allow people to be real and say what they think as long as they aren't being mean-spirited or nasty to others or insulting to the sport (which throwing your medal away, even in semi-privacy, would be).

I'm not a fan of Johnny's attitudes toward the sport, but I think there is a lot of room between Johnny's constant "candidness" and "I just tried to do my best and don't care what happens" phoniness. I think we should be more tolerant of real attitudes in between these extremes. Some skaters really are perfect, but most aren't, and I think it's what makes life and sports interesting.

[IceAlisa]

wow, you got all that from my post?

[TheIronLady]

wow, you got all that from my post?

I tend to read too much into posts. LOL. I apologize. I think we should not judge her too harshly for thinking highly of herself and even being a little over the top about it. As long as she is respectful to her competitors and the sport as a whole... I think it's better to see her be real, than totally perfect and insincere.

Few will ever be the sweetheart that Michelle Kwan by all accounts truly is and was (except maybe Alissa Czisny).

[Alex Forrest]

wow, you got all that from my post?

I am not speaking for anyone, but I do think the LP that Gold laid down was par excellence for like what the last 8 years of USN?

I don't care about the Jade nicenessness. I'd rather hear "I should have kicked her butt had I not imploded that damnSP".

I like honesty. I like bite. And IceAlisa I have given you ZERO thought in how I feel about it, as I'm sure IronLady has not either. Get a grip. Your ego......

[kwanfan1818]

As to whether Kwan could have, in her prime, before back and hip injuries stymied her, have been competitive under CoP, she did one championship under the system, the first time it was used for Worlds in 2005. USFS was still using 6.0 at 2005 Nationals, and so were the cheezefests she competed in. Cohen skated in two GP's and GPF's in the 2003-4 season, Arakawa in 5 GP's and 2 GPF's in the 2003-4 and 2004-5 seasons, and Slutskaya 2 GP's, a GPF, and a European Championships in the 2004-5 season under the new system coming into 2005 Worlds. According to Tarasova, Kwan had upgraded CoP-friendly programs for 2006, but, Tarasova had skin in the game when she said that as Kwan's choreographer and could have been blowing smoke, and Kwan never showed those programs. It's hard enough for skaters set in their ways to change -- see almost any Joubert program -- but when they're physically broken, it's nearly impossible.

Perhaps if CoP had been around when Kwan first started, she would have taken her football and gone home, but I doubt it. Kostner had weaker levels than Kwan at 2005 Worlds, and now, at Euros, she had L4 steps and 1-L3 and 2-L4 spins in each program.

Here are the levels from 2005 Worlds, where the maximum level was still 3, I believe, with Kwan doing her 6.0/CoP lite programs, i.e., without really trying to maximize everything:

Short Program:
1. Slutskaya: L3 spiral; L2 steps; 1-L1, 1-L2, 1-L3 spins.
2. Cohen: L3 spiral; L2 steps; 3-L2 spins.
3. Kwan: L3 spiral; L2 steps; 2-L1, 1-L2 spins.
4. Kostner: L2 spiral; L2 steps; 2-L1, 1-L2 spins.
5. Arakawa: L3 spiral; L2 steps; 2-L2, 1-L3 spins.
6. Sokolova: L3 spiral; L2 steps; 3-L2 spins.

Free Skate:
1. Slutskaya: L3 spiral; L2 steps; 2-L2, 2-L3 spins.
2. Cohen: L3 spiral; L2 steps; 3-L2, 1-L3 spins.
3. Kwan: L2 spiral; L2 steps; 2-L1, 2-L2 spins.
4. Kostner: L1 spiral; L2 steps; 3-L1, 1-L2 spins.
5. Suguri: L3 spiral; L2 steps; 2-L1, 2-L2 spins.
6. Poykio: L2 spiral; L1 steps; 3-L1, 1-L2 spins.

Everything was watered down in the quali rounds, and I won't bother to list them.

[IceAlisa]

I tend to read too much into posts. LOL. I apologize. I think we should not judge her too harshly for thinking highly of herself and even being a little over the top about it. As long as she is respectful to her competitors and the sport as a whole... I think it's better to see her be real, than totally perfect and insincere.

No problem. For all I know Gracie is being sincere in that tweet of hers.

As to Gracie vs. Yuna: I agree that Gracie already has a better body line than Yuna and jumps as good if not better. If she gets trained up and gets good programs with good choreo, she could definitely challenge Yuna.

[Alex Forrest]

But don't you think the judges were shitting bricks? Like this skater should only be 14th except she been our world champion or silver medalist for like what 16 years? So HOW AWFUL if they used this new scoring system to put Michelle Kwan down in 14th like she deserved even though she really didn't MAJORLY mess up? It was a PR nightmare. And thankfully Kwan just walked away from it, since you really don't want to see your "Can't Miss" girl for the last ten years suddenly show up OBJECTIVELY (and not the Linda Fratianne/FrankCarroll subjectivity) as the fourteenth best skater in the world? No wonder she pulled out of EVERYTHING the next season. She pulled out of Nats and expected a golden ticket. The fact that her tryout was not available for media, well, not unsursprising, but TOTALLY DANNY. Not even that agent she had since before she had a period (which Brennan was well known to knock Lipinski for, so it's not playing bad, it's just playing honest. Chelle had an agent at 13 just like Tara, except Brennan would never write that since it screws up her locks and her plays for the season. So Brennan is a joke, always has been, and by the looks of her writing always WILL BE. I'd say, just go away Christine, your sophomoric, overly negative and obnoxiously STUPID (I'll say it, Sarah Palin is STUPID, and so are you, Brennan) comments just don't read. I think we look at that newspaper who still pays you, what is it USAToday and they deserve better than you Christine. Get real. Get involved. Life is not a 1996 Kwan Fest thought that's what got you back into USFS's graces. Go further. You are capable Christine. At one time I thought you were a legitimate sports reporter????? Or was that my imagination?

[kwanfan1818]

Actually Kwan was 7th after the quali rounds, but why let facts get in the way of a good rant

[Alex Forrest]

Actually Kwan was 7th after the quali rounds, but why let facts get in the way of a good rant

It was just judges holding up favorites. Seriously, you thought Kwan was all IJS, gurrrl? Ah man, my Brooklyn accent is coming out. Oh gawd.

[Iceman]

Gold does have a pr machine, IMG. Saying she is a star after this one competition is absurd and those doing it might have egg on their faces after the competition this week. She did succeed in licking some of the icing off Ashley's cake. If Gold turns out to be as "gold" as some expect, Ashely's reign may be as short lived as those other ladies in recent years.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

That's the best thing about conspiracy theories. They're not falsifiable so you can say any deluded thing you want and nobody can prove you wrong no matter how crazy or bitter.

[skatesindreams]

We get it, AF: You don't think that Michelle Kwan's skating was "worthy".
You can stop now.

[kwanette]

I was one of those not terribly thrilled with Gracie's sour face on learning she was 2nd nor the "deserve to be here with me" comment. Since then she tweeted a really nice message:

So while the choice of words was unfortunate at the presser, she may be learning.

Gracie's tweet came shortly after this one from Ashley:

Ashley Wagner‏@AshWagner2010

Wow, people can be really mean. It wasn't my dream program..trust me I'm aware, but u can't understand how it feels til ur out there urself

[demetriosj]

I was one of those not terribly thrilled with Gracie's sour face on learning she was 2nd nor the "deserve to be here with me" comment. Since then she tweeted a really nice message:

So while the choice of words was unfortunate at the presser, she may be learning.

Oh, please. The Gold team had her put out that tweet to do some damage control after her pouty face was caught on camera when she realized she had not beaten Ashley, and for the condescending remarks she had about Ashley and Agnes afterwards.

They are chomping at the bit for her to beat the two-time National champ at World's, so the insincerity of that tweet is nauseating. Her true feelings were revealed at Nationals.

What she said in her tweet is all she should have said at Nationals....

[TheIronLady]

What's wrong with her being a little feisty and arrogant? She isn't trying out to be your ideal daughter. I don't get why people are treating her like her behavior is unsportsmanlike. I think she sincerely respects Ashley and her rivals, even if she is obviously a little high strung. Like I said, reality and real attitudes are what make life and sports interesting. She doesn't have to be a politician 24/7. Lord knows when skating was popular-- in the 80s and 90s-- the top ladies and their mothers were down to earth and honest. I'm not saying tolerate skaters who intentionally act crazy and disrespectful of others, but don't try to shun every genuine competitive or diva-like attitude that is expressed.

[centerpt1]

Probably just perception. No one griped when Ashley broke through last year, because she had been around a long time as a Sr, had paid her dues, battled through injury and a coaching change.

Gracie has had a lot of push and press and promo. Sometimes all that , PLUS a snarky face and attitude turns folks off.

To receive pre-favor and have attitude=not favorable response

To have paid your dues and have attitude=not necessarily a bad thing

[kwanfan1818]

It was just judges holding up favorites. Seriously, you thought Kwan was all IJS, gurrrl? Ah man, my Brooklyn accent is coming out. Oh gawd.

Actually, looking up the levels, which are done by the technical panels, by the way, so it was a true Kwanspiracy to hold her up, there were very few skaters that were all IJS at the time. Kostner, who was less "all IJS" than Kwan, beat her to the podium. Two that were most IJS friendly in 2005 were the gold and silver medalist, but Arakawa, the next in line, faultered badly in the FS. The ones whom she beat in Moscow, not so much, and not many skaters were landing their stuff in both the SP and FS. But why let a few facts get in the way?

When Kwan competed with IJS, there weren't more than a handful of IJS-friendly skaters period, and now, nine seasons into it, they are the big majority levels-wise. It's one thing to argue that a skater from the past was already IJS-friendly based on actual things they did in their 6.0 programs, like Ruh's spins, for example. It's silly to argue that skater X from that era by definition would never have been able to master IJS had it been the norm when they were competing, because the large majority who had low levels in the beginning of IJS increased their levels to become competitive, and the skaters born into the system start out aiming for those levels. Even Joubert can spin now.

[IceAlisa]

Alright, the tweet could be a PR move from Team Gold. May be they are reading FSU.