Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 84
  1. #21
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,115
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    BTW Bowman was 3rd in the LP. Filipowski was 2nd in the LP. Despite beating Bowman in both figures and the LP he ended up only 3rd overall since he was 5th in the short program (with a mistake) while Bowman was 2nd in the SP.

    I got the impression the judges were really wanting to give Fadeev the gold this year and he duplicated his LP from Europeans he would have won it for sure. He also could have won it by nailing the short program, even with his fall about long program he would have had an insurmountable lead most likely and still won the gold. That was his 3rd or 4th great chance to win Worlds (85, 86, 89, to a lesser degree 87) and he only managed to win 1 of those, and of course he failed to medal in either the 84 or 88 Olympics despite winning a medal at every single Worlds between them. His best performances every season were at Europeans it seems, except for 1985. Funny thing is the following season in 89-90 he seemed to still be one of the top skaters, he beat Petrenko to win the 1990 Soviet Nationals, and he was 2nd at NHK behind Petrenko but ahead of Browning, but he dissapeared altogether sometime before Europeans and never competed amateur again. No retirement announcement, no anything. An enigmatic and bizarre retirement, similar to the rest of his career.

    People talk about Bowmans unfulfilled potential but I think one thing that would have always hurt him even with a great work ethic is his axel technique was poor. I am not sure if he would have ever had a really stable triple axel even with a better work ethic, and without that it would have always been hard to win major events in that era, but nobody will ever know for sure.

  2. #22

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Away (off-season)
    Posts
    5,367
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    58745
    Just to correct an error in my first post:-

    MEN'S COMPETITION

    After Compulsories

    1. Fadeev
    2. Petrenko
    3. Filipowski
    4. Bowman
    5. Browning

    After Short Program

    1. Fadeev
    2. Browning
    3. Bowman
    4. Filipowski
    5. Petrenko

    Final Standings After Long Program

    1. Browning
    2. Bowman
    3. Filipowski
    4. Fadeev
    5. Barna
    6. Petrenko

    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    BTW Bowman was 3rd in the LP. Filipowski was 2nd in the LP. Despite beating Bowman in both figures and the LP he ended up only 3rd overall since he was 5th in the short program (with a mistake) while Bowman was 2nd in the SP.
    Many thanks for clarifying. I have not been able to find anything that confirms how they finished in the FS itself, although I did notice that in his/her intros to the YouTube videos, 3Axel1996 states that Browning won and Bowman finished second. Hence, I am glad you have been able to clear up matters. Do you have a link to the official detailed standings for the LP section?
    Last edited by Maofan7; 01-24-2013 at 04:06 PM.

  3. #23
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,115
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    Many thanks for clarifying. I have not been able to find anything that confirms how they finished in the FS itself, although I did notice that in his/her intros to the YouTube videos, 3Axel1996 states that Browning won and Bowman finished second. Hence, I am glad you have been able to clear up matters. Do you have a link to the official detailed standings for the LP section?
    No, I dont, but Browning in his book detailed the standings of every program, an article from the Globe and Mail which I read at the time listed the standings and factored points of each program, and the CBS coverage had Scott Hamilton mention Filipowski needed to place 2nd in the LP just to win the bronze. So I am 100% sure that Filipowski was 2nd in the LP phase. Here is the CBS coverage, and they mention at 4:11 he would have to beat Bowman in the LP in order to medal:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmuArdNNsVk

    Barna placing 4th in the SP ahead of Filipowski cost him the silver in the end.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 01-24-2013 at 04:55 PM.

  4. #24

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,718
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    15530
    Bowman did very well in figures

  5. #25
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    What happened to that Daniel Doran who the USA sent who finished 7th?

  6. #26
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,335
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    8208
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    The problem with 80s judging was that there was a pecking order in place, and like Lu Chen several years later, Ito did not have a strong fed behind her. They were happy with her placing top 6 even though her presentation was perfectly respectable at the time. We already commented on other threads that Claudia Leistner won TWO silvers at Worlds, that should wake you up. Ito's marks in the 80s were atrocious considering Kira Ivanova, Leistner, etc.
    STOP HATING ON CLAUDIA! :/ I love her 1989 LP to MacArthur Park, her best EVAH! Besides, who else should have medalled?

  7. #27
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by alchemy void View Post
    STOP HATING ON CLAUDIA! :/ I love her 1989 LP to MacArthur Park, her best EVAH! Besides, who else should have medalled?
    Yamaguchi or even Lebedeva! LOL. That MacArthur Park was was a drag show. She seriously just stands there and moves her arms and shakes her rear like we are supposed to be watching her lip syncing.

    I enjoy Claudia's personality, but she was comical. Anybody who had any choreography was one step above her. I admire her jumps and spins at her impressive height, but there was no finished product/program. It was all unintentional camp.

    Did Gracie Gold borrow some of Claudia's choreography?

  8. #28
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Holland - Land of the Dutch
    Age
    37
    Posts
    396
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Many people say the first season after an Olympic year is boring, because mostly almost every top skater has retired, but for me it was still exciting to see who took the place of the skaters who left and to see if they would still be there in 4 years time.

  9. #29

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,950
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    88606
    Quote Originally Posted by sadya View Post
    Many people say the first season after an Olympic year is boring, because mostly almost every top skater has retired, but for me it was still exciting to see who took the place of the skaters who left and to see if they would still be there in 4 years time.
    Interesting comment. I tried to see who that won medals in 1989 and won medals in the Olympics in 92.

    Men:

    89 Worlds: Browning, Bowman, Filipowski
    92 Olympics: Petrenko, Wylie, Barna (although Browning did come back to win another world title in 93)

    Ladies:

    89 worlds: Ito, Leistner, Trenary
    92 Oly: Yamaguchi, Ito, Kerrigan

    Pairs:

    1989 worlds: G&G, L&J, B&P
    92 Oly: M&D, B&P, B&E

    Ice dance:

    1989 worlds: K&P, U&Z, D&D(?)
    92 Oly: K&P, D&D, U&Z

    Ice dance was most consistent, as is usually the case.

  10. #30
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Age
    23
    Posts
    13,115
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I find the norm is the strongest Worlds is the pre Olympic year Worlds, the next strongest is the mid quad Worlds, then the post Olympic year Worlds, and naturally last normally the post Olympic World itself. As for predictors to the Olympics I find the post Olympic Worlds usually means very little as it is usually skaters just ending up their careers, the post Olympic year Worlds tends to also not mean as much as often skaters cant carry their momentum that long for another 3 years, the mid quad Worlds is often the one that starts to put the picture and the contenders for the next Olympics into play, and often is a crucial Worlds for many competitors as it often sets new trends and ranks that arent reversed, and the pre Olympic Worlds is the one that really establishes a pecking order of sorts and draws the major battle lines going into the games.

  11. #31

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Away (off-season)
    Posts
    5,367
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    58745
    Evelyn Grossmann would go on to win Europeans the following season, and then finished 2nd the season after that. However, she pulled out of 1991 Worlds due to injury and never competed internationally again. I've read that this was due to a whole catalogue of injuries. Does anybody know what the underlying injury problem was? I am also just wondering whether German reunification had anything to do with it, and the dismantling of the East German sporting system?
    Last edited by Maofan7; 01-28-2013 at 05:47 PM.

  12. #32
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Age
    27
    Posts
    2,476
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    Evelyn Grossmann would go on to win Europeans the following season, and then finished 2nd the season after that. However, she pulled out of 1991 Worlds due to injury and never competed internationally again. I've read that this was due to a whole catalogue of injuries. Does anybody know what the underlying injury problem was? I am also just wondering whether German reunification had anything to do with it, and the dismantling of the East German sporting system?
    She actually competed at two Grand Prix/Champions Series events the first year it was turned into a circuit of internationals (1995/1996). She withdrew from the German Championships later that year, though, and I'm guessing finally decided to call it quits. She had been competing at German Nationals every (or almost every) year since 1991 with non-podium finishes.

  13. #33
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I think her inability to come back from injury had everything to do with the end of the GDR, but the elimination of compulsory figures made her standing fall too.

  14. #34

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Away (off-season)
    Posts
    5,367
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    58745
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I think her inability to come back from injury had everything to do with the end of the GDR, but the elimination of compulsory figures made her standing fall too.
    Agreed. But, there must also have been some underlying injury problem, as at her best, Grossmann would have easily qualified for Euro's, Worlds, and the Olympics (she was much better than Marina Kielmann, Patricia Neske, and Simone Lang - beating them at 1990 and 1991 Euro's. A greater challenge would have been posed by Tanja Szewczenko from the mid 1990's onwards, and for the 93/94 season, the returning Katarina Witt. But even then, Grossmann was good enough at her best to gain one of the spots). She was a good free skater, as well as being proficient at compulsories. In fact, better, as she would invariably move up after the SP and FS. For example, she finished 14th in the compulsories at 1989 Worlds, and 5th in the FS.
    Last edited by Maofan7; 01-29-2013 at 06:10 AM.

  15. #35

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Away (off-season)
    Posts
    5,367
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    58745
    Article by Phil Hersh from the 13th May 1988, which highlights the problems Paris had in securing the 1989 World Championships. Also refers to the then forthcoming ISU vote which ultimately led to the elimination of compulsory figures.

  16. #36
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    How did Claudia Leistner get 2nd place in the free skate at the 1989 worlds? Yamaguchi and Trenary at least look like they had a pulse. Claudia had a creaky 3L. Was that all it took? And a panel of mostly European judges? I love her standing at the end of the rink and gyrating to disco while she took a nap-length break, but that would be hard to add that to the base mark. Are there arguments for her ranking her above Jill and Kristi's free skates? And what about Jill versus Kristi? How would you re-rank this?

    FS Ordinals

    1st Midori Ito 伊藤 みどり (JPN) - 1989 World Figure Skating Championships

    2nd Claudia Leistner - 1989 Worlds Long Program

    3rd Jill Trenary - 1989 Worlds Long Program


    4th Kristi Yamaguchi (USA) - 1989 World Figure Skating Championships
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 06-15-2013 at 01:21 PM.

  17. #37
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    9,802
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Leistner's skating was sort of klunky and that LP was craptastic, but I found her kind of endearing. I was glad for her that she was able to end her amateur career with a silver medal.

    G&G was gorgeous.

    Love Ito. I think her LP music in 89 suited her so much better than her LP music for 91 and 92.

  18. #38
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    9,802
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    How did Claudia Leistner get 2nd place in the free skate at the 1989 worlds? Yamaguchi and Trenary at least look like they had a pulse. Claudia had a creaky 3L. Was that all it took? And a panel of mostly European judges? I love her standing at the end of the rink and gyrating to disco while she took a nap-length break, but that would be hard to add that to the base mark. Are there arguments for her ranking her above Jill and Kristi's free skates? And what about Jill versus Kristi? How would you re-rank this?
    [/URL]
    Jill made too many jump mistakes in her LP, so it's understandable that Claudia's LP was ranked above Jill's. Kristi was still skating like a kid in 89, was the 2nd-ranked American woman, and she had no international reputation ; The judges wasn't going to put her above the seasoned veteran Leistner, unless Kristi gave a star-making performance, which she definitely didn't.

  19. #39

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Some place competitive and athletic, but ultimately more like an audition than anything else.
    Posts
    7,718
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    15530
    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    ...Kristi was still skating like a kid in 89, was the 2nd-ranked American woman, and she had no international reputation ; The judges wasn't going to put her above the seasoned veteran Leistner, unless Kristi gave a star-making performance, which she definitely didn't.
    Wow ... this is true ... but it brings back such memories of judging that could be completely explained without mentioning much of what happened on the ice..

  20. #40
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    1,520
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Jill made too many jump mistakes in her LP, so it's understandable that Claudia's LP was ranked above Jill's. Kristi was still skating like a kid in 89, was the 2nd-ranked American woman, and she had no international reputation ; The judges wasn't going to put her above the seasoned veteran Leistner, unless Kristi gave a star-making performance, which she definitely didn't.
    No matter how old or veteran Claudia was, the judges had no problem putting the experienced Charlene Wong and Yvonne Gomez where they belonged. The judges were simply cheating for Claudia as the best European. Perhaps some were content with their cheating knowing that she was a sweet girl and good sport who would not overstay one day more than the 1989 worlds.

    Looking over the ordinals for SP and FS your seniority theory does seem to cover the rankings fairly well, but it's hard to validate because most of the women were green that season. Even if they were the superior free skaters--as Kristi was above Claudia and Lebedeva-- the compulsories were important. Naturally the more experienced competitors tended to place higher in figures. It was a natural rhythm ... and one that probably became more pronounced this year since figures were being phased out.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 06-15-2013 at 05:57 PM.

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •