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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    That is the most horrifying thing I've ever read on this or any other sports board. It would have taken away Midori's only world title and irreparably damaged the sport forever.
    How so? Janet Lynn never won a World title and that didn't "damage" the sport.

  2. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    How so?
    Ummm because it is hard to call something a "sport" at all that does not reward athleticism above all else.

  3. #63
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    Well bardtoob Claudia Leistner was a big and athletic German woman. She wasn't lacking in the qualities of an athlete. She was more reliable on her jumps than most. I think it would have been tragic for other reasons. She was sluggish, not a particularly skilled skater, and her programs were comically bad in their avoidance of choreography. She had long rest stops dressed up as "dancing." She was kind of the hottest mess to be that tall and striking to look at yet to have no acceptable style to go with it.

  4. #64

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    ... then let's change "athleticism" to "athletic performance".

    Claudia certainly was athletic as a person, but she simply did not execute well enough to justify being placed over a revolutionary athletic performance by Midori.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 06-16-2013 at 10:31 PM.

  5. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    Those Wikipedia entries are incorrect - this one has the correct standings:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Wo..._Championships

    They were 7th both years, but the field in 1989 was much weaker, so a 7th was much more disappointing in 1989. Of the 6 teams ahead of B&E in 1988, 4 had retired and Selezneva & Makarov were also not at Worlds (injured?). So to finish 7th again meant that they had lost ground to 5 teams. It probably hurt even more that Landry & Johnston had won the silver medal given that they had finished behind Brasseur & Eisler at Canadians two months earlier. Given all of that, it's not unreasonable that Brasseur & Eisler could have expected a podium finish with a good skate, so 7th place (out of 11th teams) was really a disaster.
    According to their book, Lloyd was sick right up to the short program, and CFSA wouldn't let Josee Picard stand at the boards with them at Worlds in competition or practice because she didn't have the coaches certification required - and she was generally the one who helped Isabelle with her nervousness.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    ... then let's change "athleticism" to "athletic performance".

    Claudia certainly was athletic as a person, but she simply did not execute well enough to justify being placed over a revolutionary performance by Midori.
    I can support you on that. Athletic performance is more descriptive of the difference between these two women's skating. Leistner did not apply her bodily strengths in energetic performances.

  7. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Didnt Landry & Johnston skate poorly at the Canadians that year though? I dont think the result there neccessarily proved Brasseur & Eisler were the better team. Although given the field that year even a then immature Brasseur & Eisler definitely had a shot at the silver or bronze with a good competition.
    It's been a long time since I've watched 89 Canadians, but I believe you are correct that Landry & Johnston did not skate that well, although they did enough to beat Hough & Ladret for the World team, so I don't think it was a disaster either. I do feel like being the Canadian champs would have created expectations in Isabelle and especially Lloyd's mind though.

    Dave - Interesting point about Josee Picard and the CFSA...having done some of those coaching certification courses in gymnastics, my experience is that they were a complete waste of time, so it's unfortunate that was the roadblock for her. I actually hadn't realized that the certification requirements were being enforced that early on, as gymnastics didn't start cracking down until the late 90s. Guess the CFSA was ahead of the curve in bureaucracy

    Just watched the OSPs and starting on the men's SPs. Was there no other piece of Charleston music besides "Yes sir, That's My Baby?" It feels like just about every team had a variant of that music. It makes me grateful for the creativity teams use today in trying to find suitable short dance music. At least the Duchesnays did something different, even if the feather boa and hat were just plain stupid (imagine if it had cost them their first world medal).

    Bowman's SP is one of my favorite programs by anyone - so well-choreographed and he just performed the hell out of it. Does anyone know who choreographed it?

  8. #68
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    Cindy Landry sure had a short amateur career. Skating with Lyndon a couple seasons, then going pro for good at only 18.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    Just watched the OSPs and starting on the men's SPs. Was there no other piece of Charleston music besides "Yes sir, That's My Baby?" It feels like just about every team had a variant of that music. It makes me grateful for the creativity teams use today in trying to find suitable short dance music. At least the Duchesnays did something different, even if the feather boa and hat were just plain stupid (imagine if it had cost them their first world medal).

    Bowman's SP is one of my favorite programs by anyone - so well-choreographed and he just performed the hell out of it. Does anyone know who choreographed it?
    I highly recommend you Barna's SP then, pure joy to watch.

    As for D/D OD it was only a way of being "original" and not listening to the rules. They were fifth in the OD though, beaten by both Engi Toth and Wynne Druar. And rightly so IMO.

  10. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Cindy Landry sure had a short amateur career. Skating with Lyndon a couple seasons, then going pro for good at only 18.
    She skated with Peter Oppegard as a Pro in several competitions.

  11. #71
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    This thread just gave me a 'duh' moment! All this time I thought that when people wrote about Josee Picard that they were really talking about Josee Chouinard. I only skim most threads for names of skaters who interest me, so naturally, I usually keep going...

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave of the North View Post
    According to their book, Lloyd was sick right up to the short program, and CFSA wouldn't let Josee Picard stand at the boards with them at Worlds in competition or practice because she didn't have the coaches certification required - and she was generally the one who helped Isabelle with her nervousness.
    Yeah, I remember that now. I read the book a long time ago. It's unfortunate that there is inaccurate info about their finishes on Wikipedia. I just had a vague remembrance that they were disappointed with their finish in '89, as compared to their finish in the previous year.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by skatesindreams View Post
    She skated with Peter Oppegard as a Pro in several competitions.
    Then she was with Burt Lancon for years in a Las Vegas show.

  14. #74
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    Although they bombed in LP, I was slightly surprised at Schwarz/Köenig not getting 2nd in the original program.

    I'd have to check the marks and see what the ordinal split was between Leistner and Trenary in the long program (I'm assuming it wasn't unanimous either, and Grossmann and Yamaguchi should have at very least got some 2-3rd place ordinals).

  15. #75
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    I just did some maths and the ordinals between 2nd and 5th in the LP are kind of all over the place. ITA and HUN had Yamaguchi 2nd in the LP with a 5.7/5.7 and a 5.8/5.7 respectively. The GDR judge had Grossmann 3rd on the LP but IIRC pretty much everyone else had her 5th. It was Yamaguchi who sent the ordinals loopy in the LP but she was too far back in figures (12th) to have any impact on the overall result.

  16. #76

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    Kristi found herself in the same situation that Midori had often experienced; weak figures in comparison to her free skating.

  17. #77
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    I've uploaded some more videos to go with those linked by Maofan7. I did mean to do this back in January when the thread was started, but have just had too much going on.

    Some rare CD's:

    1989 Worlds - Duchesnay's Argentine Tango CD Huuuuuge error here. Horribly over scored.

    1989 Worlds - Usova & Zhulin Argentine Tango CD

    1989 Worlds - Klimova & Ponomarenko Westmister Waltz CD A rare 6.0 for a CD.

    And here is Kristi & Rudy's SP

    1989 Worlds Yamaguchi & Galindo SP

  18. #78

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    Thank you, floskate!
    I'd never seen these.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Jill made too many jump mistakes in her LP, so it's understandable that Claudia's LP was ranked above Jill's. Kristi was still skating like a kid in 89, was the 2nd-ranked American woman, and she had no international reputation ; The judges wasn't going to put her above the seasoned veteran Leistner, unless Kristi gave a star-making performance, which she definitely didn't.
    How early did Kristi skate in the evening compared to everyone else? I forgot to consider that she skated in the 12th-7th place flight; and also that since she had a fall, the judges would not want to do her favors. Early skaters infrequently got the benefit of the doubt in those times.

    From almost any standards I can imagine, Leistner did not make a case to be marked ahead of Yamaguchi. I wonder if the judges who put Leistner ahead in the long program may have seen Yamagachi as needing to prove herself more than she did.

    Floskate, where are the FS judges' ordinals posted?

  20. #80
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    My UK footage joined during Beatrice Gelmini's FS. Kristi skated right after her, followed by Gorbenko and then Bonaly before the final flight so she did skate after Grossmann. There are no ordinals online. I jotted down the marks from my DVD and worked them out myself. There are a number of ties; a couple involving Kristi. Was the tech mark still the tiebreaker or had they swapped to the artistic after Calgary? I can't remember which year it changed.

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