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  1. #21
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    I feel for you Guinevere. Change can be good, even if a pay cut is necessary. I wish you the best of luck.

  2. #22
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    Are you happy with your current job otherwise? If so, are there any avenues you can pursue, like talking to someone in HR about the work environment and the perceived unfairness of the lateness policy? Or perhaps you could talk to the boss's boss, if you have a relationship with him/her? These types of despots are a liability to the company, and a smart HR person will realize that - especially if comments about this person bubble up from various sources. It's a difficult conversation for sure, but I have seen it work in the employee's favor.

    Regardless, do try to negotiate the other offer. How did the company present the offer? If presenting a candidate with a lower offer, I try to emphasize the other benefits and/or the rationale behind the decision - e.g., the salary is at the top of the market reference range, the job differs in a way that impacts salary range, etc. If they haven't done this, call them and have a discussion. You can start it by saying you're excited by the opportunity, but have some concerns about the compensation gap. Maybe they'll meet you in the middle and/or throw in an extra perq. At minimum, I suspect you can negotiate an extra week of vacation or something similar.

  3. #23
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    Thanks for all your comments.

    I'm 35 and have been in this industry for 10 years now. A real problem I have is that I feel I would be moving down and am losing an office already. But the line of work is slightly different and so I would be starting over again so to speak in learning the details again. So while the job is the same, the knowledge is different from what I do now.

    Our department head is well known for doing this - since I started working with her six years ago, 12 people in our department of 30 people have either quit or been forced out by her, including some really good people. This is standard fare for her and our senior management does nothing because our department continues to bring in the most money.

    The problem is when it's good, it's really good and fun and hilarious to work here. And I love my other co-workers except the one whose work I end up doing all the time. We call her the department favorite. But then when it's bad, it's horrible. Two women who've been here for 10 and 20 years respectively went through this as well and one had to retain a lawyer to not get fired.

    So that is sort of a snap shot. I feel horrible about looking for a new job behind everyone's back because i really like my co workers and if she wasn't here, it would be great. Yet at the same tome I'm not sure if I have time to wait for a new job.

  4. #24
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    Also for the most part both companies are equal in benefits. My current company had 120 people, the new one has about 30. I think they're mostly equal.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guinevere View Post
    I feel horrible about looking for a new job behind everyone's back because i really like my co workers and if she wasn't here, it would be great. Yet at the same tome I'm not sure if I have time to wait for a new job.
    You should not feel bad about looking for a new job "behind everyone's back". This is your financial security and sanity you're talking about here. As I'd said before, and others have said as well, you are being signalled that they're going to let you go. You have no choice but to look for something else; and you can't tell coworkers, because that's too risky. There's no need for guilty feelings, here. This is about self-preservation.
    Use Yah Blinkah!

  6. #26

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    Can we revisit the stress factor? Because outside of the write-up, I am not sure it will be better at the new job. From my POV, working an hour late everyday is not "extremely long hours". As Jenny noted, the write-up is a concern but I am not seeing other things that are making me say that you should run out of the door.
    What would Jenny do?

  7. #27
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    It is hard to explain unless you have worked here. We call this her MO - she picks a person and then just watches them like a hawk until a mistake is made and then all hell breaks loose. One girl got reamed out for forgetting an attachment on an email. The client didn't complain but she got yelled at anyway. This person has had 3 lawsuits against her for wrongful dismissal and lost all 3. Two of our employees who are well respected and knowledgeable and have been with the company for 10 and 20 years have had to threaten lawsuits to keep their jobs. Head hunters (note the plural) in our industry will not place people in her department.

    But that's what happens when she "turns" as we call it. When she likes you, it's nice. When she doesn't then you know you're in trouble but you have no idea what went wrong. We call it her "turning.". And perhaps it's not extremely long hours to you but working an hour late every day with no compensation is extra hours no matter how you cut it. That doesn't even include the weekends I have had to come in. And then I'm written up for showing up at 8:35am instead of 8:30 when I've been doing that for years with her full knowledge. Add to that I see someone in our office coming in later than me and nothing is said.

    I think maybe a part of me doesn't accept that I'm in the line of fire or really think its going to happen.

    I went on another interview and I'm kinda hoping they will at least match my current salary.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by snoopy View Post
    Can we revisit the stress factor? Because outside of the write-up, I am not sure it will be better at the new job. From my POV, working an hour late everyday is not "extremely long hours". As Jenny noted, the write-up is a concern but I am not seeing other things that are making me say that you should run out of the door.
    I think the issue is being written up for being late when the initial poster is working back an hour every day (thus covering being 5 minutes late). Sounds like if they were not working with the "bitch manager from hell" that they could deal with having to work overtime. Please correct me if I am wrong.

    Guinevere - It is so uncomfortable working with someone who can be so changeable and unpredictable. Sounds like you have some other options because even getting interviews is positive. Like everyone has said if you can afford it take the pay cut to get out of the crappy situation. Maybe this is also sending signs to you that it is time to move onto another job. Good luck with it all.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  9. #29

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    I have to say, there is always going to be someone or something bad. Maybe not as bad as this person who has lost 3 wrongful termination lawsuits, but there will be something.

    In a company of 30, I would be nervous that they aren't as well funded. If they had layoffs, would you be first to go?

    I have similar issues - coming in a bit late and justifying it to myself because I work 9 hour days. But I've been feeling really guilty about it lately. Perhaps you could try coming in 5 min early and leaving earlier? $6,000 is a lot of MONEY! And document your interactions with her. She's bound to do something unfair.

    I'm sorry for what you are going through, because tension like this in the workplace is really awful.

    How does this woman keep her job? She has to be a little big closer to losing it, right? Maybe you should stick it out for 6 months and see what happens?
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  10. #30

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    I had a boss like yours - at what I thought would be a fantastic, dream job in my field. This was in a professional atmosphere, all decently paid, salaried employees.

    Yet he had the attitude of an assistant manager at a fast food restaurant, overseeing a bunch of teenagers, watching us clock in and clock out and berating us *at length* for extremely petty things. Everyone had to be at the office before him - and stay long after he'd left. And god help you if you weren't at your desk when he walked by your office - or when he phoned.

    He was prone to rages and, as with your boss, he'd pick one person and blame them for everything, driving them to quit. Then on to the next victim.

    It made me hate a job, a career, I loved. I ended up quitting.

  11. #31
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    On the point of being chronically late, just want to say generally (not necessarily in this situation because I don't know the details or context), it can actually be a very big deal. When it's only a few minutes, there's not much you can really say, but over time, it can become a thorn in the side of those who make the effort to be on time - coworkers might wonder how the late person gets away with it, resent that nothing is being done about it, and eventually say so to management.

    It's also a problem if everyone else is at their desks and ready to work, but one person they need to speak to or get a response from is not. Even five minutes late is often more by the time the person hangs up their coat, fires up their computer, gets a coffee, stops in the washroom etc.

    And, I have to say that people who are chronically late often display a continuing pattern - late back from lunch, late to meetings, etc. It's unprofessional, it can get in the way of others' work, and the implication is that one is chipping away at company time, which annoys management and coworkers. The other thing is that chronic late people often have a distorted sense of time, or convince themselves it's not that bad - for example saying they are 10 minutes away when it's really 20, or thinking they were only 5 minutes late when it's really 15, counting arrival time as when they pulled into the parking lot or through the front door instead of when they were at their desk and actually starting to work.

    Even if one "makes up for it" by staying late or working through lunch or not taking smoke breaks like some others, that isn't necessarily enough - especially if other workers who are always on time also regularly work late or through their lunch hour. Unless there's a public policy on the matter, as I said, chronic lateness can create resentment over time of someone who is perceived to be "getting away" with something.

    Another one - and this sounds minor but you'd be surprised - is people who continually show up late with a Starbucks in their hand. To many - including management - that's a clear signal of where one's priorities are. I've seen it happen - nothing is said, but it sure is noticed, and when push comes to shove, it's a black mark against you.

    Again, not commenting on anyone in this thread because I don't know the full story - just a few general comments about lateness and why it's a very big deal for some people.

  12. #32

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    I was wondering about the lateness myself. Why are you late 5 minutes every day? I'm not excusing your manager's behavior or saying she was sincere in her reason for writing you up, but I was really wondering why you were late every day for the past 6 years or so.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guinevere View Post
    This person has had 3 lawsuits against her for wrongful dismissal and lost all 3.
    Wow - she must be generating a lot of revenue if the company is willing to pay legal fees for all these wrongful dismissal lawsuits, with the probability that there will be more to come.

    Actually, losing 12 out of 30 over 6 years isn't all that bad a record. I once worked for a lady that ran them off much quicker than that. Out of a group of 24, by the time I had been there a year, only 3 people had been there longer than me. After 15 months, I couldn't take it anymore, either. I almost accepted a job with lower pay (although the hours would also have been fewer) but then a new offer with better pay came along.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I was wondering about the lateness myself. Why are you late 5 minutes every day? I'm not excusing your manager's behavior or saying she was sincere in her reason for writing you up, but I was really wondering why you were late every day for the past 6 years or so.
    My first thought was that she was relying on public transportation, and the bus/subway schedule made her 5 minutes late.

  15. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I was wondering about the lateness myself. Why are you late 5 minutes every day? I'm not excusing your manager's behavior or saying she was sincere in her reason for writing you up, but I was really wondering why you were late every day for the past 6 years or so.
    I had a situation like that once. I lived in the 'burbs and relied on commuter rail to get in to the office. If I took the 7:05 train and switched to the subway, I'd usually get in the office about 8:20 when our normal start was 8:15. My earlier option would have been a 6:35 train, making my total day well over 12 hours. Others in the department had similar public transport issues. After explaining to my manager, he switched the entire department to flex time. You had to be in the office between 7 and 9 and put in a minimum of 8 1/2 hours. Of course, we didn't wait 6 years to discuss this.
    AceOn6, the golf loving skating fan

  16. #36
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    That's exactly the reason. I take public transit and have now switched to the bus 15 minutes earlier. I now show up at 8:10 and still work late.

    I understand the issue of being late can be a big deal even if its a few minutes and would not normally have a problem - if it was department policy. my old job was very strict with this and I was on time. But two things: 1. People are STILL coming in late and to my knowledge have not been written up. Also they dont work late because i watch them leave on time every day from my office 2. If it such a problem then perhaps I should have been told. Instead I was told I was being monitored.

    Just an update, I emailed the HR lady back and asked to see if they were willing to renegotiate the salary. My friend who is a HR lady herself vetted my email so hopefully it's okay.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    I was wondering about the lateness myself. Why are you late 5 minutes every day? I'm not excusing your manager's behavior or saying she was sincere in her reason for writing you up, but I was really wondering why you were late every day for the past 6 years or so.
    That can happen for many reasons. I was always about 5 to 10 minutes late, when I worked in NYC. It was because of the train/PATH/subway schedule. I could have been there on time. But, to do that I would have had to take a train 1 hour earlier, and I'd have gotten in 45 minutes early. I compensated, as Guinevere did, by working 1 to 2 hours late, every day. Nothing was ever said to me about it, until I got pregnant. So, I got up an hour earlier, got in 45 minutes early, no one was there to work with, and left on time. It was far less productive.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogue View Post
    My first thought was that she was relying on public transportation, and the bus/subway schedule made her 5 minutes late.
    So? Take an earlier bus/train.

    I have to be at work at 8:00, and when I have had to take the bus, I am out the door at 7:10, and I only live 5 blocks away from the bus stop, and 3 miles from my job, plus the local transit company runs buses on their major routes, at least, every 10 minutes (and the route I take goes into Albany, so it is considered a "major route").

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    Quote Originally Posted by Karina1974 View Post
    So? Take an earlier bus/train.

    I have to be at work at 8:00, and when I have had to take the bus, I am out the door at 7:10, and I only live 5 blocks away from the bus stop, and 3 miles from my job, plus the local transit company runs buses on their major routes, at least, every 10 minutes (and the route I take goes into Albany, so it is considered a "major route").
    That's easy when you have frequent busses/trains. Not so much when you have fewer.

  20. #40
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    Transportation issues can be legit (but not always), but as Aceon6 describes, one should bring such situations forward to their manager and agree on a course of action.

    And make a point of letting others know the deal, because as I said otherwise resentments can simmer below the surface until one day they explode. (As Guinevere notes above, some of her colleagues come in late and she doesn't know why, nor if they have been called out for it - her coworkers might be saying the same about her.)

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