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  1. #561

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    Heard to be second in war-up is ideal place. But i dont think its good for T-S to skate just after D-W.
    Remember in Nice they skated last after I-K, when D-W were ealy in group. It was good.
    Did you really think D-W speed were so much better, then V-M? They gave D-W on 0,5 higher marks for transitions and CC. I disagree with this. Especially because commentatro on British Eurosport said V-M didnt made more then 2 steps in the same position. Isnt this show difficulty of this SD? All this details, moves - its not transitions?
    Then again - D-W not so fast, when they need to do so many jumpes and hoops, so i am not sure i agree with you.
    Plus i am sure judges will not give higher transitions and choreo marks in FD, then in SD, especially i am sure they will be such low, then D-W marks in SD. And "O, Esmeralda" with open mouthes and generick choreo, wich all saw three years in row will get 10th, when "Carmen" will be lucky enough if it get 9,75 in some PCS.
    So thats why i am really impressed with what Tessa and Scott are doing, that they could show strongest SD in this season at international level, get personal best score for SD. Great job, guys!
    Its too long untill FD I hope T-S will have great rest before FD and will show there best in FD, like they could did in SD. And will not pay attention to D-W and there marks. They are alwayse overscored, so what a big deal?

  2. #562
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    The FD is tomorrow night.

    Very happy to see them in first, even if it's just by a little. D&W won PCS by Choreo & Transitions, which is reasonable, and Skating Skills, which I guess was due to speed. Carmen has more/better Choreo & Transitions than Notre Dame, so that should bode well in the FD.
    Here's the thing about speed and skating skills. V/M were incredibly fast last night--without sacrificing any of the other qualities their skating possesses. Speed was in no way an issue. Beyond that though, and I know I'm preaching to the choir here, although it feels that way at times, speed is not the only factor in skating skills. So many other things are meant to be considered under that category--things that V/M unquestionably do better than D/W. Because of that, V/M should hands down be marked higher than D/W when it comes to skating skills.

    Also, while D/W are known for being speed demons, I've always thought they weren't as smooth over the ice as V/M and that they don't cover as much ice with each stroke. They're stroking more and not as smooth, which means they're working faster, and I think gives them the illusion that they're a bit faster than they actually are.

  3. #563

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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    Very good skate, but I don't love the ending pose. It seems rushed and they don't seem they can stay in character long enough.

    I really love the straightline sequence.
    I don't like the ending pose either. Seems really forced or something.

    My only other nitpick is they were off unison at the end of the straightline. I wonder why they only got level 3 on the second polka pattern?

  4. #564

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    Quote Originally Posted by lauravvv View Post
    Yes, but Tessa and Scott also got level 3 in one of their polka sequences. If they too got level 4 in that sequence, and everything else was exactly the same, including the GOE for it (and D/W step sequence GOE), they would have lost by 0.06 points. And they still would have lost because of PCSs, not because of the technical score. But we can't really tell have it would have been.
    I am very pleasantly surprised how close the PCS is given V&M's bad start order for the SD.

  5. #565

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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    Guys, you could watch SD in better quality

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1hEc...ature=youtu.be

    http://fsnews.ru/forums-m-posts-q-889.html

    Its funny, canadian judge gave them 3 10th. And we will not have her at WCh
    How do you know it was the Canadian judge who gave them 10s? I thought the judges were random at ISU Championships? (That said, it probably was the Cdn judge who gave them 10s ).

  6. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    Here's the thing about speed and skating skills. V/M were incredibly fast last night--without sacrificing any of the other qualities their skating possesses. Speed was in no way an issue. Beyond that though, and I know I'm preaching to the choir here, although it feels that way at times, speed is not the only factor in skating skills. So many other things are meant to be considered under that category--things that V/M unquestionably do better than D/W. Because of that, V/M should hands down be marked higher than D/W when it comes to skating skills.

    Also, while D/W are known for being speed demons, I've always thought they weren't as smooth over the ice as V/M and that they don't cover as much ice with each stroke. They're stroking more and not as smooth, which means they're working faster, and I think gives them the illusion that they're a bit faster than they actually are.
    ITA. Speed was the only possible explanation for the marks, but I agree it is not everything and IMO V&M should have an advantage in skating skills over everyone else.

  7. #567

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    Quote Originally Posted by aka_gerbil View Post
    Here's the thing about speed and skating skills. V/M were incredibly fast last night--without sacrificing any of the other qualities their skating possesses. Speed was in no way an issue. Beyond that though, and I know I'm preaching to the choir here, although it feels that way at times, speed is not the only factor in skating skills. So many other things are meant to be considered under that category--things that V/M unquestionably do better than D/W. Because of that, V/M should hands down be marked higher than D/W when it comes to skating skills.

    Also, while D/W are known for being speed demons, I've always thought they weren't as smooth over the ice as V/M and that they don't cover as much ice with each stroke. They're stroking more and not as smooth, which means they're working faster, and I think gives them the illusion that they're a bit faster than they actually are.
    I've always felt D&W sacrifice good line, unison and polish for speed. I don't like it. Watching V&M and D&W back to back, it's really noticeable how much superior V&M's line and extension are. I couldn't really tell a difference in speed. One thing that stands out to me though is that IMO V&M have a much better looking and larger polka pattern than D&W.

    I can see D&W getting higher PCS in Choreo, because it really is a clever piece of choreography, but I don't agree with the other PCS being higher. I know a lot of people love D&W's SD but at times I almost find it painful to watch because they are so UNballetic and yet are skating to a ballet. It really stands out with Charlie in particular to me....his leg looks bent half the time when he's extending behind him and there's no stretch in his foot. And there are times where I find Meryl's arms and hands unpolished/unballetic.

    I thought Marina looked quite nervous before D&W's marks came up.

  8. #568
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    Quote Originally Posted by manhn View Post
    Very good skate, but I don't love the ending pose. It seems rushed and they don't seem they can stay in character long enough.
    The ending looks rushed to me too. I'm afraid someone's going to get their nose smacked and end up with a nose-bleed. I wish they'd go back to the pose they had at the beginning of the season.

  9. #569
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    I've watched both programs back to back a number of times now and I think V&M outskated D&W. I personally think the judges were generous with D&W in comparison. I also have an issue with the whole speed debate. D&W create speed with lots of running, hops and pulling but compare the size of the pattern dance between the two teams and see who creates more speed. I think the changes V&M have made to the SD were the right ones and I think more in keeping with the spirit of the music Hopkins composed (if you saw the video of him in the audience listening to his music being played it's much more in the spirit of the newest SD version).

    I actually prefer V&M's SD now to Giselle for the first time this season.

  10. #570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    I can see D&W getting higher PCS in Choreo, because it really is a clever piece of choreography, but I don't agree with the other PCS being higher. I know a lot of people love D&W's SD but at times I almost find it painful to watch because they are so UNballetic and yet are skating to a ballet. It really stands out with Charlie in particular to me....his leg looks bent half the time when he's extending behind him and there's no stretch in his foot. And there are times where I find Meryl's arms and hands unpolished/unballetic.
    It is a great piece of choreo. It actually occurs to me that I would love to see what V&M, particularly Tessa, could do with it. I have never felt the opposite (wanted to see how D&W would skate a V&M piece).

  11. #571
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    It would be nice to see what Tessa and Scott could do with a ballet program. Don't think we´ll get the chance before they retire.

  12. #572
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    I have given up questioning the judging. Now I am just allowing myself to watch each program and enjoy it best I can. Time is running out.

    I dont know what I will do at worlds. I hope I dont close my eyes!
    Last edited by Emdee; 02-08-2013 at 06:26 PM.

  13. #573

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    The FD is tomorrow night.

    Very happy to see them in first, even if it's just by a little. D&W won PCS by Choreo & Transitions, which is reasonable, and Skating Skills, which I guess was due to speed. Carmen has more/better Choreo & Transitions than Notre Dame, so that should bode well in the FD.
    Do the judges see this though?

    To me it seems like D&W's FD has a lot of open skating/stroking into elements, a lot of times where they are apart from each other posing or just in hand-to-hand hold. The overall effect is that they do not skate close together.

  14. #574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafter View Post
    I've always felt D&W sacrifice good line, unison and polish for speed. I don't like it. Watching V&M and D&W back to back, it's really noticeable how much superior V&M's line and extension are. I couldn't really tell a difference in speed. One thing that stands out to me though is that IMO V&M have a much better looking and larger polka pattern than D&W.
    Word. I take issue with the GOE's on the polka patterns because V/M and D/W both had 1's on both patterns, but the quality of V/M's patterns is infinitely better than that of D/W.

    I can see D&W getting higher PCS in Choreo, because it really is a clever piece of choreography, but I don't agree with the other PCS being higher. I know a lot of people love D&W's SD but at times I almost find it painful to watch because they are so UNballetic and yet are skating to a ballet. It really stands out with Charlie in particular to me....his leg looks bent half the time when he's extending behind him and there's no stretch in his foot. And there are times where I find Meryl's arms and hands unpolished/unballetic.
    I was just telling someone else nearly the exact same thing. I think that the current version of V/M's SD has just as good of choreography as D/W's SD, but D/W's SD choreography is quite brilliant. (So, I guess I'm saying both SD's are brilliant.) Like you though, I find it painful to watch D/W's SD because of the issues with lack of extension, unison, and line. You put it perfectly in that it's a ballet piece, but they are so UNballetic.

  15. #575
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    On to more important things -- I have a feeling Scott will be gelling his hair again for the FD. His new haircut won't work in fierce!Carmen.

  16. #576
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    Quote Originally Posted by sap5 View Post
    On to more important things -- I have a feeling Scott will be gelling his hair again for the FD. His new haircut won't work in fierce!Carmen.
    Hopefully then for Worlds that Christmas haircut will have grown out a bit

  17. #577

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmcg View Post
    D&W create speed with lots of running, hops and pulling but compare the size of the pattern dance between the two teams and see who creates more speed. .
    Thats what i alwayse try to explane - how both teams create speed. V-M, like a lot off people talking, create speed from nothing (like a lot off canadians skaters doing).
    I remeber in 2010 in Torino during Gala exibitions, D-W did the same element with Kerrs in the end. Kers did 2-3 steps and get speed they need for made element, when D-W need to go on circule and did 6 quik steps to generate the speed the same with Kerrs. But nobody else talked about this so i thought i am wrong.

    How do you know it was the Canadian judge who gave them 10s? I thought the judges were random at ISU Championships? (That said, it probably was the Cdn judge who gave them 10s ).
    Just thought. because any other didnt give them 10th

    Word. I take issue with the GOE's on the polka patterns because V/M and D/W both had 1's on both patterns, but the quality of V/M's patterns is infinitely better than that of D/W.
    But only V-M ubers see this. So i think rules was changed and we cant understand nothing.

    I thought Marina looked quite nervous before D&W's marks came up.
    Meryl look very unhappy with marks and nervouse before marks came up. Did she think they must have 80 at big ISU event, like on Nationals?

    On to more important things -- I have a feeling Scott will be gelling his hair again for the FD. His new haircut won't work in fierce!Carmen.
    I have bad feeling they try to gorw up Scott hair for soemthing for WCh My favorite haircut is from SC and CoR.

  18. #578

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    I too didn't think Meryl looked happy with the marks. I guess she was hoping for more.

    Side note, but can someone please give Meryl a cookie. Her arms and face are looking so emaciated to me it's scary.

  19. #579
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    I am so lucky to have seen live three times Tessa and Scott competing against Meryl and Charlie, at Worlds 2010, 11 and 12. Every time, I noticed how much bigger they skate and how easy they gain speed without sacrificing lines and extensions at all. And every time I wondered how it is possible for the judges (with their trained eyes) to be even comparing the two couples and give them similar marks. Seen live, the difference between them as well as Tessa and Scott's superiority are overwhelming.
    I also agree with all the comments about the unballetic Meryl and Charlie's SD. I am a huge ballet admirer, so I cringe at the idea of one the most unballetic ice dance couple ever doing "Giselle", which is one of my most favourite ballets.
    Not necessarily linked to ice dance, but you really can't see Meryl and Charlie's arms, knees and toes after seeing these:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TcDzWRrk9I
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw1OAP0BqTU

  20. #580
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    Quote Originally Posted by pani View Post
    I have bad feeling they try to gorw up Scott hair for soemthing for WCh My favorite haircut is from SC and CoR.
    I actually like this new haircut, as it reminds me a bit of how he wore his hair for PF and Mahler (which I also liked ) However, I thought his haircut for SC and CoR worked better for Carmen.

    Why do I like discussing hair so much?

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