Virtue/Moir #24: We Like it Hot

[pani]

I *think* theirs is not combination spin? Or am I missing something too

Yes, they did spin all the season with three basic postions. I cant say nothing about "4 different variations of positions". Like i understand - first Scott position, Scott and Tessa in second half of spin and Tessa posotion in last part.
Tech pannel did mistake, because this is NOT CoSp, but IS Sp.
And for CoSp if they didnt made 3 revolutions in firts position - it will be level 1. But in Sp they did 2 and its OK.

[Golightly]

Huh? Maybe they thought they were about to change a foot and didn't. I am so confused. I am pretty sure this is a spin and not a combination spin. Still, the level one would only make sense if they ignored the variations and only counted the rotations, right? After all, the only difference between a spin and a spin combination is that change of foot. So, let's suppose they thought this was a combo spin, meaning they noticed a change of foot, levels do not change much except for Level 1, which requires three (not six, sorry) rotations. They didn't consider the variations then? What on earth?

[pani]

Huh? Maybe they thought they were about to change a foot and didn't. I am so confused. I am pretty sure this is a spin and not a combination spin. Still, the level one would only make sense if they ignored the variations and only counted the rotations, right? After all, the only difference between a spin and a spin combination is that change of foot. So, let's suppose they thought this was a combo spin, meaning they noticed a change of foot, levels do not change much except for Level 1, which requires three (not six, sorry) rotations. They didn't consider the variations then? What on earth?

No. For Sp they need to made two full ratations in difficult positions, when for CoSp - 3 full rotation in difficult postitions. This is Sp thats why V-M did 2 full rotations and this will be enough for level at least 3 if they didnt count some of there difficult position, but not 1.

[Golightly]

Thank you, Pani. I thought you needed to do three full rotations during Sp. Man, this is a glaring error from the judges, unless they noticed something we did not. I have watched it time and time and again and I do not see anything wrong with it. Can anyone break down the positions? I know there are three, all basic, correct? What about the variations?

For Level 4:

4 different Difficult Variations from 3 different Basic Positions (2 by both partners or 3 by one partner and 1 by the other partner, at least 1 Difficult Variation being performed by partners simultaneously): each Difficult Variation for at least 2 rotations.

And now I can't remember if there's a change of direction. Is there? I don't think so.

[aka_gerbil]

Thank you, Pani. I thought you needed to do three full rotations during Sp. Man, this is a glaring error from the judges, unless they noticed something we did not. I have watched it time and time and again and I do not see anything wrong with it. Can anyone break down the positions? I know there are three, all basic, correct? What about the variations?

There is no change in direction.

When I watched it, it appeared that at different points in the spin, both Tessa and Scott possibly had a skate that ever-so-slightly grazed the ice. That would have lost them levels right there. That said, the fact that the spin was called a combination spin is a glaring error in the calling.

[pani]

And now I can't remember if there's a change of direction. Is there? I don't think so.

How could you change spin direction if you stay on the same foot or didnt put other foot on ice?

aka_gerbil
This wasnt postitions mistake. All was because they named this spin CoSp - for it they need to do 3 full rotations. But for reall spin Sp they need only 2. Thats all. So it was big caller mistake. And its sad V-M team didnt notice this. Maybe they really miss Igor in Canton.

[CatherineC]

They've made music changes?
Where? I didn't notice.

[pani]

Ha, they change now protocols - now Sp is note, but steel level 1.
This is print-screen after competitions
http://shot.qip.ru/00bB2u-2G1CCNoyb/

[Golightly]

OK, so maybe they touched the ice as aka_gerbil. Now, wouldn't that invalidate the element altogether?

[pani]

OK, so maybe they touched the ice as aka_gerbil. Now, wouldn't that invalidate the element altogether?

But this was tech pannel mistake and now they change it. So you trust to this level? OK, hope this was there last level 1 in competitve skating

[Golightly]

I don't know. I am just trying to make sense of the level 1. So, if they entered it as a spin (and marked it as such), what are the requirements for a level 1?

[elle123]

They've made music changes?
Where? I didn't notice.

It's very subtle but there's a slight change here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LS9HFO-vgG8#t=185s It sounds like they added piano to the music.
I personally liked it, it made the music softer and add tenderness to that moment between them.

[lauravvv]

Yes, they did spin all the season with three basic postions. I cant say nothing about "4 different variations of positions". Like i understand - first Scott position, Scott and Tessa in second half of spin and Tessa posotion in last part.
Tech pannel did mistake, because this is NOT CoSp, but IS Sp.
And for CoSp if they didnt made 3 revolutions in firts position - it will be level 1. But in Sp they did 2 and its OK.

Yes, I understand that the problem at Nationals was not the number of variations, but either that the spin was named as Combination Spin, or something else (as it looks now). I was reading the rules because I wanted to understand the possible reasons for this, but then I noticed the part about "4 variations", and just started wondering about that. Because they clearly have just 3 difficult variations of 3 basic positions (first camel, then sit, and then upright - one variation from each position). Just one more thing to be confused about (if someone more knowledgeable doesn't explain this).


Edit: I read the rules here - http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf (Spins part starts at page 22, but explanations about levels are from page 26 to 28).

[aka_gerbil]

OK, so maybe they touched the ice as aka_gerbil. Now, wouldn't that invalidate the element altogether?

You know, I'm not entirely sure. Good question.

[pani]

But changes in protocols at Nationals this season look werid

[Golightly]

I liked it too. It adds much more contrast between the Adagio and the Torero section that comes immediately afterwards.

[pani]

Read Eurosport will show 4CC

[CatherineC]

It's very subtle but there's a slight change here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=LS9HFO-vgG8#t=185s It sounds like they added piano to the music.
I personally liked it, it made the music softer and add tenderness to that moment between them.

Thanks

[lauravvv]

Read Eurosport will show 4CC

Unbelievable . Do they intend to show it on Russian Eurosport too (because that's the only one that I can see on TV)?

[Fort]

I don't know. I am just trying to make sense of the level 1. So, if they entered it as a spin (and marked it as such), what are the requirements for a level 1?

About as basic as it gets -- three rotations. So it was a matter of them losing levels, through a series of mistakes, I guess, which is a lot more complicated. And I just rewatched the spin and I still can't tell why. From the handbook:

Adjustments to Levels
1. If the spinning movement has been started and one or both partners is/are still on two feet after half a rotation, the Level
shall be reduced by one Level if one partner starts on two feet and by two Levels if both partners start on two feet.
2. If a loss of control occurs after the Dance Spin has commenced, resulting in one of the following mistakes:

additional support (touch down by free leg/foot and/or hand(s) by one partner,

one partner off the ice without sustaining action,

both partners not holding,
for up to half a rotation, and the Dance Spin continues according to Dance Spin requirements after the mistake, the Level
shall be reduced by 1 Level per mistake. But if the mistake lasts for more than half a rotation, this shall be considered as
an interruption and additional principles of calling shall apply.
Notes:

this provision does not apply to staying on two feet during the change of foot in a Combination Spin. However, the
Level shall be reduced by 1 Level per partner staying on two feet more than half a rotation;

this provision does not apply to one partner off the ice with a sustaining action which qualifies this move as a
Dance Lift.
3. If one or both partners do not change foot (to the other foot) in a Combination Spin, it will be identified as Spin Level 1.