View Poll Results: Which of these jump "firsts" was the most significant and impressive?

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  • Brandon Mroz - First Quad Lutz

    1 0.65%
  • Miki Ando - First and only Quad Jump (4S) by a Lady

    8 5.16%
  • Kurt Browning - First Quad Jump (4T)

    24 15.48%
  • Donald Jackson - First Triple Lutz

    5 3.23%
  • Vern Taylor - First Triple Axel

    0 0%
  • Grzegorz Filipowski - First Triple-Triple Combination

    1 0.65%
  • Dick Button - First Double Axel & First Triple Jump (3R)

    47 30.32%
  • Cecilia Colledge - First Double Jump (2S) by a Lady

    3 1.94%
  • Petra Burka - First Triple Jump (3S) by a Lady

    2 1.29%
  • Midori Ito - First 3A by a Lady & First Triple-Triple Combination by a Lady

    60 38.71%
  • Denise Biellmann - First Triple Lutz by a Lady

    1 0.65%
  • Elvis Stojko - First Quad Jump in Combination (4T+2T)

    3 1.94%
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  1. #21
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    Cecilia is one of my all-time favorites, but I voted for Midori. Such an innovator!

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post
    Was Kwan the first ladies' singles skater to land nine triples cleanly at the World level (SP + FS)?
    Probably. It might depend on how you define "cleanly" and "at the World level."

    1994-95 was the first year that women were allowed to do two triples in the short program. I think Kwan was the only lady at Worlds who succeeded in doing that and also land seven in the freeskate. At least the lutz in the short program would be negative GOE by today's standards (small deductions by SP rules of the time), but it was landed on one foot and seemed to be fully rotated.

    Bonaly also had two triples in the short and seven in the long at Worlds, but she had her hand down on the SP lutz and some of her LP triples were definitely cheated (which was also the case in her 7-triple Euros freeskate; I can't find the Euros SP on youtube).

    As for fall internationals, Irina Slutskaya may have been the first to skate a clean short program with two triples. She was certainly the only skater with a clean SP at 1994 Skate America, and she had also won Nebelhorn, the first international where it was legal, although I don't know offhand exactly how she did with the SP jumps or how many she had in the free there. She definitely missed a lot of jumps in the freeskate at Skate America.

  3. #23
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    Linda Fratianne is credited with being the first woman to do two different triples in a LP. It has been stated that Linda made triple jumps mandatory for any serious female skater in the mid-70s.

    Who was the first woman to do a triple in a SP? Linda did an impressive 3s-2L in her 77 SP, but I don't know if she was the first to include a triple as the required combo.


    Uncle Dick was such a pioneer. He and his coach, Mr. Lussi, invented so many of the skating moves that we see today. Skaters back then had such height and power on their jumps. Just look at Dick's 2A: He did it with an open legs position and with complete revolutions.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Linda Fratianne is credited with being the first woman to do two different triples in a LP. It has been stated that Linda made triple jumps mandatory for any serious female skater in the mid-70s.

    Who was the first woman to do a triple in a SP? Linda did an impressive 3s-2L in her 77 SP, but I don't know if she was the first to include a triple as the required combo.
    Not sure. I think triples were allowed in the ladies' SP starting in the 1974 or 75 season, although I don't know that anyone took advantage of that option. Definitely in 1976 -- the required jump in the combination that year was double flip, and apparently Fratianne and Elena Vodorezeva were planning 2F+3T, although at the Olympics they did 2F+2T like most of the rest of the field.

  5. #25

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    Hmm, I almost want to vote once for significant and go with Dick's envelope-pushing jumps since it really changed the sport going forward. And then another time for impressive because everything about Ito's jumps was jaw-dropping. So much height, ice coverage and flow. Went with Dick in the end.

  6. #26
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    It's hard for me to pick between first Triple Axel, first Quad jump, and Midori Ito.

  7. #27
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    For me Cecilia because I have read that women were PENALIZED when they showed too much athleticism back in her day-including those jumps which were discouraged for so long for female skaters.

  8. #28
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    I vote for the first triple jump by anybody (Dick Button, 1952, 3 Loop). It moved skating into a whole other era. Once someone had done one triple, it was inevitable skaters would start working on the others and that ladies would do one sooner or later. I don't think the 3A for ladies or quads for men have really made much difference in how skating looks on the ice (and even the most recent OGMs did not do them, and that pretty much defines what is important in skating). l also don't think things like 3-3 combinations made much difference. It has been 20 years or more since Ito's first one and many of the top ladies still aren't doing them.

    Now that I think of it, perhaps the first single axel or first double really is the one that totally redefined skating.
    Last edited by Susan M; 01-16-2013 at 11:37 PM.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha'sSpins View Post
    For me Cecilia because I have read that women were PENALIZED when they showed too much athleticism back in her day-including those jumps which were discouraged for so long for female skaters.
    Yes, which was only amplified by Sonja Henie not having to be so innovative.

    Cecelia could have easily resigned herself to 2nd place without having been driven to invent the camel spin, then make it flying and catchfoot . . . as well as invent the layback spin and develop the arabesque spiral position, one footed Axel, and 2S. The quality of some of her elements is just shocking when considering that she moved around the ice in the Art Deco style.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-17-2013 at 06:22 AM.

  10. #30
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    I think that the quadruple jump of Miki Ando is most significant and impressive, because she was only one woman who not only succeeded it the first in 2002 but also continued to challenge it till 2008 of the most recent year under new judging system which was adopted from 2004.
    Her quad in 2008 GP final was recognized regrettably as the downgraded quad jump by the judges, but there is not even the woman who was recognized like this except Miki Ando in the history of Ladies in the ISU official competitions under new judging system which was adopted from 2004. Her quad Salchow landed with good flow, of course she did not fall also and did not step out also.

    I think that only one is transcendental to all.

    The protocol of the free skating in 2008 Grand Prix Final: Miki Ando is 5th place.
    http://www.isuresults.com/results/gp..._FS_Scores.pdf

    The video of Miki Ando in the free skating in 2008 GP Final: The first jump is the quad Salchow Jump.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2KRWFCiyKA
    Last edited by Akira Andrea; 01-17-2013 at 01:35 PM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Akira Andrea View Post
    I think that the quadruple jump of Miki Ando is most significant and impressive, because she was only one woman who not only succeeded it the first in 2002 but also continued to challenge it till 2008 of the most recent year.
    I admire Miki for trying them, but her attempts are all under-rotated, I feel bad for Surya Bonaly, she would have been credited for the first quad.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    I admire Miki for trying them, but her attempts are all under-rotated, I feel bad for Surya Bonaly, she would have been credited for the first quad.
    I totally agree. That 4T was clean.

  13. #33

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    I admire Miki for going for the quad, regardless of whether it was fully rotated or not. This is the kind of attitude - challenging oneself to do more and more difficult jumps- has disappeared with the coming of COP.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    I admire Miki for trying them, but her attempts are all under-rotated, I feel bad for Surya Bonaly, she would have been credited for the first quad.
    Apparently, national pride, like love, makes one blind.

    Ando did fully rotate that quadruple salchow in the Junior Grand Prix Final. Go back and look at the video in Post #1 and then check the protocols. IIRC, she also landed one at Japanese Nationals. She never did a fully rotated one in senior-level international competition, though.

    Bonaly's quadruple toe loop attempts in competition were a bit short on the final rotation, though if they were being judged under CoP, they might be marked as "4T" rather than "4T<."

  15. #35

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    I have to go with Donald Jackson. It was so clean and so integrated into a clean as a whistle performance. It stole the show and the gold medal from certain defeat. It was widely seen and therefore had great effect.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Apparently, national pride, like love, makes one blind.
    National pride ? PML ! So, I guess you're from Japan !
    On this video you're talking about, you can clearly see she ends the rotation at 3.5 turn, then finishes the jumps on the ice.
    http://youtu.be/Fi1331g-qcI?t=24s
    Surya Bonaly's 4Toe are not any better, though.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Apparently, national pride, like love, makes one blind.

    Ando did fully rotate that quadruple salchow in the Junior Grand Prix Final. Go back and look at the video in Post #1 and then check the protocols. IIRC, she also landed one at Japanese Nationals. She never did a fully rotated one in senior-level international competition, though.
    As briancoogaert already pointed out, Ando's 'clean' quad Salchow was nowhere near clean. Second, the protocols? You do realize this was a 6.0-system competition, yes?

  18. #38

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    I vote for 3 Lutz of Denise Biellmann because I can remember it very well and I loved her skating.

  19. #39
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    Miki Ando's quad at 2008 GPF was sooo close. Really I wish they gave her the benefit of the doubt one of the best attempts at the quad in ladies skating.

  20. #40
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    Miki Ando's quad at 2008 GPF was sooo close. Really I wish they gave her the benefit of the doubt one of the best attempts at the quad in ladies skating. Despite the rotation issues in that program it was so technically ambitious.

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