View Poll Results: Which of these jump "firsts" was the most significant and impressive?

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  • Brandon Mroz - First Quad Lutz

    1 0.65%
  • Miki Ando - First and only Quad Jump (4S) by a Lady

    8 5.16%
  • Kurt Browning - First Quad Jump (4T)

    24 15.48%
  • Donald Jackson - First Triple Lutz

    5 3.23%
  • Vern Taylor - First Triple Axel

    0 0%
  • Grzegorz Filipowski - First Triple-Triple Combination

    1 0.65%
  • Dick Button - First Double Axel & First Triple Jump (3R)

    47 30.32%
  • Cecilia Colledge - First Double Jump (2S) by a Lady

    3 1.94%
  • Petra Burka - First Triple Jump (3S) by a Lady

    2 1.29%
  • Midori Ito - First 3A by a Lady & First Triple-Triple Combination by a Lady

    60 38.71%
  • Denise Biellmann - First Triple Lutz by a Lady

    1 0.65%
  • Elvis Stojko - First Quad Jump in Combination (4T+2T)

    3 1.94%
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  1. #1

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    Which of these jump "firsts" was the most significant and impressive?

    Which of the following jump "firsts" (performed in competition) was the most significant and impressive in figure skating history (singles skating only)?:-

    Brandon Mroz - First Quad Lutz (2011 Colorado Springs Invitational). Later, landed it in international competition at the 2011 NHK Trophy

    Miki Ando - First and only Quad Jump (4S) by a lady (2002–2003 Junior Grand Prix Final)

    Kurt Browning - First Quad Jump (4T - 1988 World Championships)

    Donald Jackson - First Triple Lutz (1962 World Championships)

    Vern Taylor - First Triple Axel (1978 World Championships)

    Grzegorz Filipowski - First Triple-Triple Combination (3T+3T) - 1980

    Dick Button - First Double Axel (1948 Olympics) and First Triple Jump (Loop) - 1952 Olympics

    Cecilia Colledge - First Double Jump (2S) by a Lady - 1936 European Championships

    Petra Burka - First Triple Jump (3S) by a Lady - 1962 Canadian Nationals

    Midori Ito - First Triple Axel by a Lady (Aichi Prefecture Regional Competition 1988, then for the first time internationally at the 1988 NHK Trophy) and First Triple-Triple Combination by a Lady (3T+3T - 1982 World Junior Championships)

    Denise Biellmann - First Triple Lutz by a Lady (1978 European Championships)

    Elvis Stojko - First Quad Jump in Combination (4T+2T - 1991 World Championships)
    Last edited by Maofan7; 01-15-2013 at 09:03 PM.

  2. #2
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    Dick's triple loop for me. He actually had a press conference about doing it beforehand as he wanted to make sure the judges realized it was a triple and didn't mistake it for a double. I think that jump ushered in modern figure skating.

    I once got the opportunity to ask Dick about that loop. I wanted to know why he chose a loop rather than a toe loop or salchow. I'm paraphrazing, but he mentioned Roger Banister breaking the 4-minute-mile and how within several weeks many other runners had also broken that barrier. Dick had it in mind that he didn't want everyone being able to duplicate his feat within weeks.

    - I find it interesting that the last triple jump to be done for the first time was the toe-loop.

    - I think David Jenkins first triple axel ever (1960 Olympic exhibition) would be second on my list and more impressive (just for being so far ahead of his time) than Vern Taylor's 3-axel (first in competition).

  3. #3

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    I'm going with Dick Button as well. Today, the ability to do double axels and triple jumps is what separates national level from international level - at least in most countries where the talent isn't so deep.

  4. #4

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    I have to go with Cecelia because her jump content matched the men of the time.

    ETA: I do have to admit that it is a miracle that Midori kept her 3/3 from 1981 to the end of her career and added a 3A.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-15-2013 at 08:38 PM.

  5. #5
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    Clearly Dick Button's athleticism ushered in modern figure skating. So while Dick's accomplishments were probably the most significant and had perhaps the greatest impact on the sport, I think Midori's first 3-axel for a lady and first 3/3 for a lady are the most impressive accomplishments. I started to vote for Dick, but ended up voting for Midori in this poll.

  6. #6

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    Had to go for Midori. It wasn't so much the actual jump she did but the quality of it, even compared to the men. I still think she is one of the best jumpers ever. Even Christopher Dean predicted at 1988 Olympics that she would be the first woman to do the 3A.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  7. #7
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    I'm leaning toward voting for Uncle Dick for the reasons stated above, but I'm also thinking of Jackson's triple lutz because it took more than a decade for anyone else to do that jump in competition. It's also worth noting that Jackson's triple lutz was the first triple toe jump of any kind to be landed in competition. The first triple toe loop was still two years away, and the first triple flip wasn't landed until well into the 1970's.

  8. #8

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    There are many deserving candidates on this list, but I picked Midori because ladies were not supposed to do jumps that even many men did not do. Hamilton won his OGM without a 3A. Just 5 years later Midori landed the first 3A by a lady, and only a handful of ladies have been able to that feat since. It immediately raised the bar for ladies, technically. Even though Denise Biellman landed the first 3lutz (not a small feat), she did not revolutionize ladies figure skating, they way Midori did.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    I'm leaning toward voting for Uncle Dick for the reasons stated above, but I'm also thinking of Jackson's triple lutz because it took more than a decade for anyone else to do that jump in competition. It's also worth noting that Jackson's triple lutz was the first triple toe jump of any kind to be landed in competition. The first triple toe loop was still two years away, and the first triple flip wasn't landed until well into the 1970's.
    David Jenkins did a triple flip at the 1958 Worlds in Paris. I think the reason that no one talks about this is that no one really knew but skating world magazine corroborates this IIRC.

  10. #10
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    If I was being objective, I might say Dick Button set the world of gymnastic jumping on ice in motion.

    I'd vote for Mao landing three triple axels in one competition, but it doesn't fit Floskate's emphasis. I voted Ito because it was exciting on many levels, and she, like Elaine Zayak, changed the ladies jumping game.

    Kwan had a similar effect with her seven triple programs I think, but I don't think any ladies besides these four have made quite the radical impact.

  11. #11

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    I voted for Stojko, although I am far from a fan.

    Almost went for Dick Button, but it seems that, while his triple loop was a huge accomplishment in 1952, not that many skaters followed suit right away. Same with Midori's triple axel: amazing accomplishment, but all these years later, how many ladies are doing it?

    With Stojko, he put it out there and then practically all the guys were trying it. Still are. So I chose him as being the most influential.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    If I was being objective, I might say Dick Button set the world of gymnastic jumping on ice in motion.

    I'd vote for Mao landing three triple axels in one competition, but it doesn't fit Floskate's emphasis. I voted Ito because it was exciting on many levels, and she, like Elaine Zayak, changed the ladies jumping game.

    Kwan had a similar effect with her seven triple programs I think, but I don't think any ladies besides these four have made quite the radical impact.
    My emphasis? Anyway Ito, - along with the first 3-3 and 3A was also the first woman to do a 7 triple LP at the 1988 Olympics. She'd been doing 6 triple LP's since 1982.

  13. #13
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    I think they were all amazing. Of course Button was the one who changed figure skating the most imho. Yet even after that people became used to seeing those moves and then the next new first became very exciting, only for most people becoming used to seeing that on the ice as well. So then the next new first often becomes the most exciting.

    I really began watching figure skating around 1994, knowing nothing about it's history and not knowing much about figure skating itself even. I still remember the excitement of our Eurosport commentator and the audience during Worlds '94 when Stoyko completed a quad in combination. It seemed like nothing else that amazing had ever been done before on the ice. Then one day I found books and a documentary about skating, only to realise there had been other amazing accomplishments decades before that which in those days were equally as exciting as a quad combination in the '90s.

  14. #14
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    WOW, I don't know !
    I'd say Dick Button's 3Loop because it was the first triple, and 60 years later, triple jumps are still the most seen jumps.
    But Midori Ito is extraordinary, because she did so many great 3Axel, and 23 years later, it seems no other women can do such an impressive 3Axel !

  15. #15
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    Dick Button. He showed that a triple could be done.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    David Jenkins did a triple flip at the 1958 Worlds in Paris. I think the reason that no one talks about this is that no one really knew but skating world magazine corroborates this IIRC.
    The history of the flip, including the first triple flip in competition, is apparently one of the great mysteries of figure skating. Here's what Wikipedia has to say:

    The origins of the flip jump are obscure. Starting in 1913, the jump was known for many years as a Mapes (now applied to the toe loop in the jargon of artistic roller skating), but it is not known for certain if Bruce Mapes was the inventor. It was certainly being commonly performed by the 1930s.

    It is not definitely established who performed the first triple flip. David Jenkins may have landed the jump in the 1950s, but perhaps only in practice. Donald Jackson is said to have performed one at the 1961 North American Figure Skating Championships. Another source claims that no skater had yet landed one in competition as late as 1968, when John Misha Petkevich was performing them in practice.

    Katarina Witt was one of two female skaters to land a triple flip for the first time at the 1981 European Championships.

    No skater has yet successfully landed a quadruple flip in competition, although Daisuke Takahashi made an attempt of it on 2010 worlds.
    Wikipedia doesn't cite any source in connection with its reference to Jenkins.

    Oddly, Jackson's own webpage on the subject of jumping firsts omits any reference to flips. Perhaps that's because he himself isn't sure whether he was the first person to land a triple flip in competition.

    I'm still thinking of voting for Jackson. Decisions, decsions!

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    If I was being objective, I might say Dick Button set the world of gymnastic jumping on ice in motion.

    I'd vote for Mao landing three triple axels in one competition, but it doesn't fit Floskate's emphasis. I voted Ito because it was exciting on many levels, and she, like Elaine Zayak, changed the ladies jumping game.

    Kwan had a similar effect with her seven triple programs I think, but I don't think any ladies besides these four have made quite the radical impact.
    I don't see how Kwan's 7-triples programs had an impact. I think Midori, Kristi, Tonya had already done 7-triples programs. I agree with the rest of your post, however. It's very hard to pick one from this poll, so I may vote for a different skater each time. Stojko's impact cannot be denied. They actually changed the rules for mens SP and allowed a quad jump and later quad jump combination in the SP, because Stojko inspired many other men to consistently land that jump, and even made the quad combination fairly common.

    It's hard for me to judge the impact of the older skaters who landed the first triple, first double axel, etc. because it was so far away, but I am sure at that time it had a huge impact. The fact that it has become a non-topic shows the extent to which skaters like Button, Taylor changed the sport.

    To a smaller extent, I would give Brian Orser credit for including two triple axels in his LP. He challenged others to do that and raised the level of the sport.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I voted Ito because it was exciting on many levels, and she, like Elaine Zayak, changed the ladies jumping game.

    Kwan had a similar effect with her seven triple programs I think, but I don't think any ladies besides these four have made quite the radical impact.
    Quote Originally Posted by floskate View Post
    My emphasis? Anyway Ito, - along with the first 3-3 and 3A was also the first woman to do a 7 triple LP at the 1988 Olympics. She'd been doing 6 triple LP's since 1982.
    Well, Zayak had also done at least one 7-triple program, but as far as I know Ito was the first to do so legally under the "Zayak rule" restrictions.

    Kwan didn't have any "firsts" in this regard. She certainly was extremely consistent at performing 7-triple programs, compared to the rest of the ladies field, and did as much as anyone to solidify the expectation of that kind of jump content as the standard. But more than that, what allowed her to win so often and medal even more often, even when she didn't complete all her planned triples, was combining that jump content with above-average spins and good-to-great skating skills and presentation. I.e., she was both well-rounded and consistent with high-level jump content. But not a pioneer in jump content, which is what this thread is about.

  19. #19

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    Was Kwan the first ladies' singles skater to land nine triples cleanly at the World level (SP + FS)?
    Last edited by falling_dance; 01-16-2013 at 05:12 PM.
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  20. #20
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    I'd say Midori Ito's 3A was more impressive but I voted for Kurt's quad as most significant because it seems to be the most talked about, even today and it started the huge trend of men attempting quad jumps. I know there were a few attempting them before Kurt, and Jozef Savodcik landed one deemed UR, but after Kurt did the first ratified one the number really increased. Of course, Elvis Stojko really built on this when he started doing them in combination.

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