View Poll Results: Your favorite US Nationals ladies champion, 1981-1995?

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  • 1995 Nicole Bobek

    19 16.24%
  • 1993 Nancy Kerrigan

    3 2.56%
  • 1992 Kristi Yamaguchi

    55 47.01%
  • 1991 Tonya Harding

    12 10.26%
  • 1987, 89, 90- Jill Trenary

    7 5.98%
  • 1986,88-Debbie Thomas

    12 10.26%
  • 1985- Tiffany Chin

    6 5.13%
  • 1982, 83,84- Roslyn Sumners

    1 0.85%
  • 1981- Elaine Zayak

    2 1.71%
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  1. #21

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    I think it's good that Tiffany Chin has gotten some votes. As this 1986 fluff piece shows, she was good until her mother decided to make her undergo unhelpful chiropractic and Eastern medicine.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5W5EQqXBMU

  2. #22
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    This one was tough, because organically I automatically wanted to vote for Tonya, but then I thought of Nicole, who imho is the only one on the list that embodies both gorgeous natural artistry & presentation with fabulous technical precision when she was on. In fact she's always been on par with Oksana imho, and that's saying a lot because Oksana is the prototype for me.

    BUT if I *had* to choose Tonya would be it for me. Why you say? (whom I talking to here, mysef?). Of course it's because of the 3axel, and the excitement, passion, fight, and suspence she brought to the scene. You knew if her thighs were big she wasn't going to hit, but if they were lean, meaning, and a fighting machine she was going to go out there and put on a show for the whole audience. It brings to mind what Peggy Fleming said once during a broadcast, about how if she had to choose between the jumps & artistry when it came to watching a skater's program, she would choose the jumps because of the excitement it brought. That's exacty how I feel. There's nothing like it. Time to put it all on the line. Do or die. Or as Eminem so eloquently put it:

    LOSE YOURSELF
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4Uv_4jGgAM




    Look, if you had one shot, or one opportunity
    To seize everything you ever wanted in one moment
    Would you capture it or just let it slip?
    Yo

    His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy
    There's vomit on his sweater already, mom's spaghetti
    He's nervous, but on the surface he looks calm and ready to drop bombs,
    But he keeps on forgetting what he wrote down,
    The whole crowd goes so loud
    He opens his mouth, but the words won't come out
    He's choking how, everybody's joking now
    The clock's run out, time's up over, bloah!
    Snap back to reality, Oh there goes gravity
    Oh, there goes Rabbit, he choked
    He's so mad, but he won't give up that
    Easy, no
    He won't have it, he knows his whole back's to these ropes
    It don't matter, he's dope
    He knows that but he's broke
    He's so stagnant, he knows
    When he goes back to his mobile home, that's when it's
    Back to the lab again, yo
    This whole rhapsody
    He better go capture this moment and hope it don't pass him

    [Hook:]
    You better lose yourself in the music, the moment
    You own it, you better never let it go
    You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow
    This opportunity comes once in a lifetime yo
    You better lose yourself in the music, the moment
    You own it, you better never let it go
    You only get one shot, do not miss your chance to blow
    This opportunity comes once in a lifetime yo
    (You better)

    The soul's escaping, through this hole that is gaping
    This world is mine for the taking
    Make me king, as we move toward a new world order
    A normal life is boring, but superstardom's close to post mortem
    It only grows harder, only grows hotter
    He blows us all over these hoes is all on him
    Coast to coast shows, he's known as the globetrotter
    Lonely roads, God only knows
    He's grown farther from home, he's no father
    He goes home and barely knows his own daughter
    But hold your nose 'cause here goes the cold water
    His hoes don't want him no more, he's cold product
    They moved on to the next schmoe who flows
    He nose dove and sold nada
    So the soap opera is told and unfolds
    I suppose it's old partner but the beat goes on
    Da da dum da dum da da

    [Hook]

    No more games, I'ma change what you call rage
    Tear this mother****ing roof off like two dogs caged
    I was playing in the beginning, the mood all changed
    I've been chewed up and spit out and booed off stage
    But I kept rhyming and stepped right into the next cypher
    Best believe somebody's paying the pied piper
    All the pain inside amplified by the fact
    That I can't get by with my 9 to 5
    And I can't provide the right type of life for my family
    Cause man, these goddamn food stamps don't buy diapers
    And it's no movie, there's no Mekhi Phifer, this is my life
    And these times are so hard, and it's getting even harder
    Trying to feed and water my seed, plus
    Teeter totter caught up between being a father and a prima donna
    Baby mama drama's screaming on and
    Too much for me to wanna
    Stay in one spot, another day of monotony
    Has gotten me to the point, I'm like a snail
    I've got to formulate a plot or I end up in jail or shot
    Success is my only mother****ing option, failure's not
    Mom, I love you, but this trailer's got to go
    I cannot grow old in Salem's lot
    So here I go it's my shot.
    Feet fail me not, this may be the only opportunity that I got

    [Hook]

    You can do anything you set your mind to, man

  3. #23
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    I voted for Nicole Bobek since I used to love her. I was totally in love with her 1999 pro LP to '70s music.

  4. #24
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    i'm going back on track with the subject. If Chin had realized her potential, no one would know Debi Thomas. Chin was a world apart until Marjorie screwed things up. Then Debi basically had a free ride to Calgary, minus that whole Trenary 87 mess at Nats. Jill always talked about the lion and the mouse, well, she was always the mouse. Jill was quite lucky that Debi had Organic exams while she was off spraying her hair with Aquanet.
    Last edited by Alex Forrest; 01-14-2013 at 11:15 AM.

  5. #25
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    I loved Chin's skating but her own decline aside I think Trenary, Kadavy, and Thomas all just passed her by. At the 86 Nationals she skated a clean short and was still well beaten by both Thomas and Kadavy. Then she skated a simplified long, but still pretty clean with 2 triples, and Kadavy who only made 2 of her own triples clean easily beat her (and nearly a 5 triple Thomas which just shows Kadavy f-ed up her big chance to win Nationals and gains some momentum in the U.S ranks). At the 87 Nationals she skated clean figures and a clean short and was only 4th in figures, and 3rd in the short only since Kadavy bombed her short. Trenary took 2nd with a triple flip combo, but probably could have even done a triple toe combo just like Chin and still beaten a clean Chin. She was quite possibly the best free skater at the 84 Olympics and sadly figures and a lack of international rep kept her (probably unfairly) from a medal, and she looked like the future of U.S skating. However she blew her big chance to win Worlds in 85, and even a chance to win Worlds in 86, and from there even without her problems she probably was just swallowed up by the depth of U.S women.

  6. #26

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    Elaine Zayak was a trailblazer- the first skater to land 6 clean triples in a program! I am surprised that she did not get any votes at all.

    Nicole would have been quite low on my list; she wasted such a great talent! She was good enough to win the world championship, but all she could do was a bronze medal at worlds. She was one of the most charming skaters on the ice. Was it Peggy that called her 'Marilyn on ice'?

    Although I voted for Kristi (mainly because of her stellar career afterwards, and her great skate at the nationals when she finally won the title), I think Debie Thomas is a very deserving lady to get my vote.

    If not for the scandal, I think Tonya would have gotten a lot more votes. She too was a trailblazer in the USA- first US lady to land a triple axel.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    BTW it's Kadavy

    I never found Kerrigan artistic, not even at the 1994 Olympics. She was a technical skater, IMO, and not always consistent, but she benefitted from the rest of the field not being consistent either. She did put it together technically at the 1994 Oly (the 2f instead of 3f was a minor mistake, in my eyes), but artistically she could not come close to Oksana who was not only a natural, but also expressed deep emotions on the ice.
    I agree. Although Nancy was certainly a good skater, I thought she had some extremely awkward moments in all her programs, including the 1994 Olympics: her layback spin always looked stiff, unattractvie, and painful, and she could not curve her arms gracefully. Almost all of her choreography included straight arms, and when she did try to curve them it was rather unattractive. Even her 1994 Olympic LP had some poorly executed choreography, especially when she glided backwards on 2 feet while thrusting her arms out at the sides.

    I disagree on one point, though: I didn't even think Nancy's 94 Olympic LP was that strong technically, (but neither was Oksana's). In the best performance of her life Nancy completed only 5 triples with no flip and only one lutz. She was a bit of a technical disapointment after the many 6 or 7 triple jump programs executed by the likes of Midori, Surya, Kristi, and Tonya.

    Kristi got my vote on the poll: she combined everything, and was very consistent. I also find it interesting that so many people here who like Kristi also like Tiffany so much. Tiffany was my all-time favorite until Kristi came along, and Kristi has been my favorite ever since.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I never found Kerrigan artistic, not even at the 1994 Olympics. She was a technical skater, IMO, and not always consistent, but she benefitted from the rest of the field not being consistent either. She did put it together technically at the 1994 Oly (the 2f instead of 3f was a minor mistake, in my eyes), but artistically she could not come close to Oksana who was not only a natural, but also expressed deep emotions on the ice.
    I agree that Nancy Kerrigan is not an "artistic" skater, but her presentation was exactly what we wait from a total package. I found her elegant.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Whether one agrees with the perception or not, the perception at the time Kerrigan was in her prime from 1991-1994 was that she was a very artistic skater.
    I was always surprised by that at the time. I never understood why Nancy was considered artistic, since she had an awful lot of upper body problems. In my case, it's not that her artistry didn't stand the test of time, it was that I never found her very artistic when I watched her back then. The only thing I thought of at that time was that people considered her an artist mainly because she was much less athletic than - but only slightly more artistic than -- Tonya and Midori. I think it was an effort to pit the "athletes" against the "artists" and Nancy was included with the artists, particularly by pro-United States media.

  10. #30

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    I voted for Kristi. There much to like about each of the ladies, but Kristi had by far the most memorable career, amateur and pro. She also appeared as an ambassador for the sport for years after she retired, had that great run on DWTS, she is the figure-skating gift that keeps giving

    But for the best Nationals single performance, it's definitely Tonya Harding 1991. A-M-A-Z-I-N-G. I've watched it so many times over the years, still I find it incredible and exciting.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    I agree that Nancy Kerrigan is not an "artistic" skater, but her presentation was exactly what we wait from a total package. I found her elegant.
    I found her as dull and robotic on the ice as she was off the ice.
    My job requires me to be a juggler, but that does not mean that I enjoy working with clowns.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    I agree that Nancy Kerrigan is not an "artistic" skater, but her presentation was exactly what we wait from a total package. I found her elegant.
    I did not find her elegant at all. She always looked stiff/wooden, and not in a particularly attractive position. No lines. If she was a total package, it was a package of mediocrity, IMO. I did not dislike her, but did not particularly like her either.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    However she [Chin] blew her big chance to win Worlds in 85
    Could've Chin really have won 85 Worlds with a clean LP? Chin skated better than Witt in the SP, IMO, and was still judged only 2nd. Tiffany's LP only had three triples planned - two toes and a sal. Even with better style and a clean skate, I don't think it would've been enough for the judges not to favor Witt. Tiffany really needed to include the 3 flip to put her over the top.

    aside: Tiffany's 85 LP has always bothered me in its construction. The last music cut didn't seem to go with the slow piece preceding it at all, and the only jump planned at the end was a 2A-2t, whereas Witt had a 3t and then a 2A to finish. The second half of Tiffany's LP always felt empty to me somehow, especially coming after her beautifully constructed 84 LP.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by orbitz View Post
    Could've Chin really have won 85 Worlds with a clean LP? Chin skated better than Witt in the SP, IMO, and was still judged only 2nd. Tiffany's LP only had three triples planned - two toes and a sal. Even with better style and a clean skate, I don't think it would've been enough for the judges not to favor Witt. Tiffany really needed to include the 3 flip to put her over the top.

    aside: Tiffany's 85 LP has always bothered me in its construction. The last music cut didn't seem to go with the slow piece preceding it at all, and the only jump planned at the end was a 2A-2t, whereas Witt had a 3t and then a 2A to finish. The second half of Tiffany's LP always felt empty to me somehow, especially coming after her beautifully constructed 84 LP.
    Who knows for sure, she might not have won, but it was her best ever chance IMO, unless one thinks 1986 was a better one but she would have had to beat Witt's LP there too (if she only beat Thomas but not Witt, it actually would have made Witt the new winner), and Witt's 86 LP was stronger than 85 and Chin was no longer U.S Champion. I think she might have only since Witt's marks werent as high as would be expected for her skate, indicating they were saving room, and Chin's marks at the 85 Worlds were very generous for two enormous errors. I wouldnt read anything into the short program result, Witt always won the short program from 84-88 if she skated cleanly.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Elaine Zayak was a trailblazer- the first skater to land 6 clean triples in a program! I am surprised that she did not get any votes at all.
    I agree. She is also the opposite of some of the others, someone who seems MUCH more appreciated decades later than she actually was when she skated.

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    [Zayak] is also the opposite of some of the others, someone who seems MUCH more appreciated decades later than she actually was when she skated.
    I think that Elaine Zayak's appeal is kind of dated. Her personality is wonderful both today and then, but who wants to see five hundred triple toe loops? She was a great skater, but I think her programs stand up to time better from her comeback in 1994.

    Elaine Zayak 1994 US Nationals SP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7kOLzvxxm8

    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I did not find [Kerrigan] elegant at all. She always looked stiff/wooden, and not in a particularly attractive position. No lines. If she was a total package, it was a package of mediocrity, IMO. I did not dislike her, but did not particularly like her either.
    Nancy was wonderful, and so far in this thread her detractors have not made a case. She was a lazy and sometimes lousy pro skater, but her competitive programs had eye catching qualities. I believe it takes a sense of ladies skating history to appreciate it, but her skating was interesting and her body was in excellent shape in 94, allowing her to achieve a triple lutz that, were it performed today, the other ladies might envy.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 01-15-2013 at 04:20 AM.

  17. #37
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    Kerrigan's triple lutz in the LP at Lillehammer was actually small and not that strong compared to both Baiul and Harding, one of the few valid justifications judges at that event had for giving Bauil higher technical marks which led to her controversial win.

  18. #38
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    The lutz is just one jump in a 4 minutes program. Besides, even if Nancy's 3lutz was judged as small-ish, it was done around the 3 minutes mark. Coupled the lateness of the lutz with the 3t-3t and 3s-2t, Nancy should've had the technical edge over Baiul.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by FunnyBut View Post
    But for the best Nationals single performance, it's definitely Tonya Harding 1991. A-M-A-Z-I-N-G. I've watched it so many times over the years, still I find it incredible and exciting.
    I wonder how long it will be until there is another LP at US Nationals with both a 3A and a 3/3 . . .

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    I think that Elaine Zayak's appeal is kind of dated. Her personality is wonderful both today and then, but who wants to see five hundred triple toe loops? She was a great skater, but I think her programs stand up to time better from her comeback in 1994.

    Elaine Zayak 1994 US Nationals SP
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7kOLzvxxm8



    Nancy was wonderful, and so far in this thread her detractors have not made a case. She was a lazy and sometimes lousy pro skater, but her competitive programs had eye catching qualities. I believe it takes a sense of ladies skating history to appreciate it, but her skating was interesting and her body was in excellent shape in 94, allowing her to achieve a triple lutz that, were it performed today, the other ladies might envy.
    You can't forget what Zayak brought to ladies skating (or may be YOU can)- athleticism which was seriously lacking. By your logic, all the skaters of the past, including Ito, Button, Salchow, et al. will have no appeal at all just because everyone is doing what they did in the past (Ito somewhat of an exception in the 3A).

    About Nancy, why can't you accept that people have different tastes when it comes to liking/not liking skaters? There is no need to be condescending. Many of us here are very familiar with FS over the years, so you are not the only one that knows the history of ladies skating, and skating in general.

    I have seen plenty of posts that stated specifically what they did not like about Nancy's skating. You are only reading what you want to read.
    Last edited by Vash01; 01-15-2013 at 04:39 PM.

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