View Poll Results: Who has had the best career of these two guys so far

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  • Johnny Weir

    159 52.82%
  • Jeremy Abbott

    142 47.18%
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  1. #41
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    Johnny is an international star, Jeremy has fans mostly in US. And I don't think, that Jeremy is better artistic skater as Johnny. No. Johnny has more natural talent, like Jeremy.
    Last edited by lala; 01-14-2013 at 06:19 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by lala View Post
    Johnny is an international star, Jeremy has fans mostly in US. And I don't think, that Jeremy is better artistic skater as Johnny. No. Johnny has more natural talent, like Jeremy.
    IMO, Johnny is looking for elegance, but doesn't try to understand the music, and Jeremy is more in the sense of the music. So, IMO, Jeremy is a more artistic skater.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    It is pretty much impossible to lose your Olympic elgibility these days isnt it?
    No.

    Stéphane Lambiel and Evgeni Plushenko both lost their eligibility by participating in non-sanctioned events in 2010. Plushenko, of course, sought and obtained reinstatement, but Lambiel hasn't. Since the ISU hasn't changed the pertinent rule since then, it could happen again.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheylana View Post
    Given their respective level of competition, who has had more realistic chances for Olympic and World medals? In other words, which one was better at capitalizing on their opportunities?
    Jeremy's Grand Prix final performances in 2009 would have won Worlds especialy going in with the clout as U.S #1 (while the U.S #2 who was 3rd at Nationals ended up winning Worlds). Jeremy's National performances in 2010 would have won gold at the Olympics and silver at Worlds. Thus I would say the answer to that is obvious, Jeremy is the one who blew more opportunites. Johnny didnt even have that many, a chance at a medal at the 2006 Olympics maybe, and the bronze he did win at the 2008 Worlds. A chance at the bronze at the 2005 Worlds, but he was injured. I would say for the most part he did as well as he was going to. Of course blowing your opportunities is not a positive thing anyway.

  5. #45

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    They are so different.
    In terms of careers, I'd say it's a wash, more or less. So far.
    In terms of a following and legacy...
    Johnny has a bigger following. He is also more about being a persona on ice- somebody with beauty, line, elegance, and sass. Johnny expresses himself, and does it admirably. I think the sheer fact that he is so admired in Russia while being openly gay and married is a tremendous legacy, one of many.
    Jeremy is much more about experimenting with choreography and serving the music. It is no accident that so many skating pros ( John Kerr, Kimberly Navarro, Kim Yu-Na and Elena Vodorezova immediately come to mind) go out of their way to express their admiration of Jeremy's art. For my part, I love him to bits. Skater's skater, musician's skater, less about personality and more about variety and complexity of expression.
    They are both quite outstanding though, well beyond their medal count
    Last edited by dinakt; 01-16-2013 at 02:30 AM.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  6. #46
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    ^^ ITA, dinakt!

  7. #47

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    I voted for Johnny because he had his own reality show and is much more well known to the public...
    Nubka - Unpaid Slave Laborer...

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    No.

    Stéphane Lambiel and Evgeni Plushenko both lost their eligibility by participating in non-sanctioned events in 2010. Plushenko, of course, sought and obtained reinstatement, but Lambiel hasn't. Since the ISU hasn't changed the pertinent rule since then, it could happen again.
    Plushenko didn't participate in non-sanctioned events, he lost his eligibility because Russian Federation withdrew the permission they had give him to participate in some KOI shows.
    Skaters which participate in non-sanctioned events can't apply for reinstatement.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by dinakt View Post
    They are so different.
    In terms of careers, I'd say it's a wash, more or less. So far.

    They are both quite outstanding though, well beyond their medal count
    Well said!
    BARK LESS. WAG MORE.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    IMO, Johnny is looking for elegance, but doesn't try to understand the music, and Jeremy is more in the sense of the music. So, IMO, Jeremy is a more artistic skater.
    I disagree.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIELts2lHsU Johnny
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAcZJnYtMt8 Jeremy

    Johnny understands the music, he is artistry and remains interesting..........

  11. #51
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    For now Weir but if Abbott wins his 4th U.S title then him. The legacy of both is mostly centered around their U.S Nationals legacy, as both have little to no international legacy of any sort. Abbott already is better than Weir at the thing both of their careers are most based around, both 3 U.S titles, but Abbott beat Lysacek at his peak in 2 of them, so another U.S title for Abbott would make it easily him I think.

  12. #52
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    To me they're both amazing, each in his own way. I enjoy both their skating styles (which I can't say about all skaters!). It's a very difficult choice to make in this case. They both still achieved more than most people, even if they didn't win World or Olympic gold.

    Sometimes I think Abbott might still win a Worlds or even Olympics, you never know what happens, ice is slippery after all as the cliché but very true saying is. Then I remember the Japanese skaters and Plushenko and some of the European skaters even and think, well, perhaps one of the other medals if he's flawless, but maybe not gold.

    Both Abbott and Weir have impressed me mostly with their skating styles and gave us all something for every mood we're in, movie suspense, drama on ice, fun skating, simple elegent skating, etc. And the best part is that they're not done skating yet. I'm looking forward to all their future skating, no matter what their results will be or have been.

  13. #53
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    Abbott is a better skater than Weir, yet Weir has achieved more, so while Jeremy's competitive results are somewhat disappointing for a skater of his calliber, Johnny's aren't as much, because he wasn't as prone to folding under pressure.

  14. #54
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    Well, I guess it depends on how you define a career. I much much much prefer Abbott. Had I skated competitively, I would rather realize my skating on the level of Jeremy Abbott than being a National Enquirer type who coasted like Weir. I was quite taken with Weir at Cleveland 2000 Nats even though he totally blew the LP. He was clearly a standout. I enjoyed his 2002 performances and was happy when he won in 2004. But then his skating just stagnated, his artistic sensibilty was more just a shock value and superficial choreo. Let's just say that if I had to choose from I would much rather realize myself skatingwise as Jeremy Abbott than Weir. YMMV. Abbott's 2010 Nats program would have won Olympic gold, it was blissful. Weir was NEVER in contention for Oly gold. Then Abbott bombed, but his skating is really what everyone should strive for. Weir? Not really unless you think Lady Gaga programs deserve high PCS.

    It was sort of would you rather have been Bowman or Wylie? I'd rather have been Wylie, though Bowman was more successful, at least as an amateur minus Paul's Oly medal. Like Weir, I found Bowman very superficial in his movements and musical interpretation. But like with Abbott, I always thought that Wylie had some brains backing up his skating, that there was plenty of thought and nuance.
    Last edited by Alex Forrest; 01-23-2013 at 10:45 PM.

  15. #55
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    Interesting comparing those situations. Perhaps you're right. Personally, I enjoyed both of those too, I loved the skating of Bowman as much as that of Wylie. I do think Bowman had amazing skating skills though, even though the focus on his personality on ice (and off ice) took the attention away sometimes of what he was doing on his blades.

    It's great to have many different types of great skaters at the same time, it makes the competition more interesting and entertaining. I remember downloading a fluff peace about the different personalities of Bowman and Wylie. They showed Bowman relaxing and hanging out while Wylie was studying and working hard. They said something like 'every mother wants her daughter to be with Wylie while every daughter wants to be with Bowman', the words were different of course. It was a long time ago since I watched the fluffs and interviews from that era. I remember Browning once saying that when he first saw Bowman skating, he thought he'd never beat him.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndyWarhol View Post
    medal from worlds > grand prix final gold.
    ^^^
    THIS.

    Johnny has had the greater success overall. And a reality show to go with it!

  17. #57
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    Jeremy also did not beat Johnny last time they went head to head.

  18. #58
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    But Alex Forrest, Johnny Weir was in second place after the sp at 2006 Olympics behind Plushy, and Johnny should arguably have been in front of Plushy (but Plush had the longevity and rep status, plus more political backing obviously). Certainly, Johnny skated more smoothly with exquisite ride-out on his jumps and much better choreography than Plushenko. It was a given that Plushenko was going to win gold at that Olympics though. Still, Johnny actually was at the least, "in contention" for Olympic gold in 2006. He "missed the bus" and didn't skate well in the fp, as is well known, but that doesn't mean he "was NEVER in contention for Olympic gold."

    Also, Johnny skated very well at 2010 Olympics and arguably should have been in contention for at least the podium, but his political stock which was never very high (domestically or internationally), had dropped so low by then. He still had the talent, but they locked him into sixth place even though he skated better than at least two guys placed in front of him in both sp and fp. In addition, of course, Johnny was in contention for gold after the sp at 2008 Worlds, and he was also in contention for the podium at 2004 and 2005 Worlds.

  19. #59
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    I wouldnt say Johnny was a gold contender in 2006. Plushenko was the only gold contender really. If anyone had a very outside shot to beat him if Plushenko made mistakes it was Lambiel or Joubert, nobody else. Yes he was 2nd in the short program with one of the only clean shorts of the night so kudos to him, but he was 10 points back of Plushenko, so that isnt in contention for gold in that sense either. Weir never had any possible hope of winning the actual gold medal either in 2006 or 2010, and I would concur he was definitely not in contention for it. He did have a shot to medal in 2006, along with about 8 other guys.
    Last edited by judgejudy27; 01-25-2013 at 06:35 AM.

  20. #60

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    Johnny definitely had the most natural talent I've ever seen in a skater, you don't wake up one day at age 12, put on skates for the first time and teach yourself how to do an axle in your basement and in a cornfield and then four years later become the world junior champion.

    I really have to wonder how far Johnny would had gone had he had a coach from the beginning, who made him do full run throughs and spend more than three hours a day on the ice.

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