View Poll Results: Who has had the best career of these two guys so far

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  • Johnny Weir

    159 52.82%
  • Jeremy Abbott

    142 47.18%
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  1. #21
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    speaking of legacy, I think Weir is the first US gay skater to marry while being Olympic eligible?

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    speaking of legacy, I think Weir is the first US gay skater to marry while being Olympic eligible?
    It is pretty much impossible to lose your Olympic elgibility these days isnt it?

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Really a toss up. I would much rather the Grand Prix final title than a World bronze since it is an actual big title, which Johnny never came close to winning one of. Both have 3 U.S Titles but Jeremy has a good chance to add to that, while Johnny obviously is done. Virtually same # of grand prix wins. Johnny much better World and Olympic placings overall, even if almost always out of the medals as well. I would say Jeremy by a bit, but it really is a toss up. It is not like comparing Lysacek to either one where Evan would be way ahead of the other two, they are at the same level really. If it was who is the better skater ignoring achievements I would say Jeremy hands down.
    Emanuel Sandhu has a GPF title (beating Plushenko!), and he is not remembered as a decorated skater. Olympics and Worlds placements along with Nationals and Europeans are where the pressure is greatest, where everyone attempts to bring their A+ game, and where reputations are cemented. I think Johnny making top six at the Olympics twice plus a world bronze and 4th mark him above Jeremy at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by jlai View Post
    speaking of legacy, I think Weir is the first US gay skater to marry while being Olympic eligible?
    This is very legally true. One wonders if any famous USA skaters had unofficial (or semi-official) husbands while competing who were kept hidden behind the scenes. There is one retired skater about whom many of us are curious, but since he remains to my knowledge a bachelor whose private life is not discussed, I won't speculate.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 01-13-2013 at 08:27 AM.

  4. #24
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    In Grand Prix competitions, you never have all the excellent skaters in one competition, often not even in the GPF, while at Worlds almost every excellent skater is competing. To me Worlds counts more than a GP or even a GPF. Not that it doesn't mean anything to win a GP or GPF, just not as much as Worlds (or Olympics, though to me a skater who has been able to win many World Championships is a better competitor - which isn't always the same as a better skater - than someone who won an Olympics, because I think it's more difficult to win so many times, even though an Olympics is of course the highest honour).

  5. #25
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    I voted for Johnny

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    Fortunately, not everyone bases the value of a career simply on placements. I much rather prefer to watch Abbott instead of Weir any day. Jeremy's programs are always gems while I've found many of Johnny's programs to be duds. JMO.
    I prefer to watch Pechalat/Bourzat, Cappellini/Lanotte and the Kerrs (when they were still competing) over Davis and White, whose programs and skating I strongly dislike. Yet I wouldn't argue that Davis and White have had a poorer career than those teams because of my personal preferences. Johnny has had a longer, more accomplished career than Jeremy by most standards, so he'd be my choice.

  7. #27
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    I would consider winning a GPF pretty spectacular.

    Firstly, you need to qualify or be invited to two Grand Prix Series Events, win or place against the best skaters in the world, and win the final against the other medalists from their two combined Grand Prix Series Events. That's having to peak three times in six weeks, which is tough for any elite athlete.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    I would consider winning a GPF pretty spectacular.

    Firstly, you need to qualify or be invited to two Grand Prix Series Events, win or place against the best skaters in the world, and win the final against the other medalists from their two combined Grand Prix Series Events. That's having to peak three times in six weeks, which is tough for any elite athlete.
    Like any competition, sometimes it's more spectacular than others. Abbott did skate very well at the 2008-9 GPF and at the Cup of China, but he was not spectacular in the Cup of Russia, and the level of competition at the GPF that season wasn't great, IIRC.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Like any competition, sometimes it's more spectacular than others. Abbott did skate very well at the 2008-9 GPF and at the Cup of China, but he was not spectacular in the Cup of Russia, and the level of competition at the GPF that season wasn't great, IIRC.
    The flipside being that with Weir's world bronze, he only placed 5th in the long program.

  10. #30
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    In term of results, I'd say Weir.
    But my favorite skating is by Jeremy Abbott

  11. #31
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    If you tally their gold medals won as senior skaters, they are very close, but Jeremy comes out slightly ahead. Abbott has 8 golds and Weir has 7 golds. Jeremy won a Finlandia Trophy while Johnny finished 2nd in that event. Abbott won 3 GP events plus the GPF while Weir won 4 GP events. Both have 3 US Championship titles. Jeremy has 18 medals total as a senior while Johnny has 21 medals total.

    I discounted team events and sectionals competitions as seniors. A junior career is incomparable since Jeremy never competed internationally during that stage of his career.

  12. #32

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    Weir (to date) has the best career-I'm looking at World and Olympic placings. They are (so far) even at 3 National Championships each. Two of Jeremy's Nationals were won with huge point margins, but that still doesn't make up for the lack of a World medal.

    Jeremy is the better technical and artistic skater.

    Weir has more of a Fan following.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by museksk8r View Post
    I discounted team events and sectionals competitions as seniors. A junior career is incomparable since Jeremy never competed internationally during that stage of his career.
    Why didn't Abbott compete internationally as a junior? According to wiki, he won the 2005 US Junior title.

    I think the juniors should count. Weir started skating very late, so the fact that he was able to win junior worlds four years after he took up the sport is extremely impressive.

    I think Weir probably has more natural talent than Abbott (although the latter is very talented too), given how quickly he picked up skating and developed excellent basics. He also has a beautiful sense of posture and bodyline for someone without serious ballet training and he had good jump technique in the day. What Weir lacked were good training habits and that he didn't have the drive to go for the difficulty in his programs. Abbott really pushes himself with very difficult footwork and transitions, the quad, and harder jump placements (like the back to back 3axel this year).

    I have to go with Weir... a World medal trumps any other medal except Olympic, which Abbott doesn't have.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cherub721 View Post
    Why didn't Abbott compete internationally as a junior? According to wiki, he won the 2005 US Junior title.

    I think the juniors should count. Weir started skating very late, so the fact that he was able to win junior worlds four years after he took up the sport is extremely impressive.

    I think Weir probably has more natural talent than Abbott (although the latter is very talented too), given how quickly he picked up skating and developed excellent basics. He also has a beautiful sense of posture and bodyline for someone without serious ballet training and he had good jump technique in the day. What Weir lacked were good training habits and that he didn't have the drive to go for the difficulty in his programs. Abbott really pushes himself with very difficult footwork and transitions, the quad, and harder jump placements (like the back to back 3axel this year).

    .
    Abbott won junior men when he was 19, so he aged out and was sent to a Nebelhorn instead. He didn't qualify for nationals that year, but the year after he "made up for lost time" by placing 4th at his first senior nationals.

    I agree that Weir is probably more talented than Abbott. Jeremy's consistent 3A didn't come easily to him, for instance. Of course, once he has had it, he has it.

  15. #35

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    I don't think Weir is more talented than Abbott in the absolutely sense. Some people PICK UP skating very quickly and are able to learn jumps fairly early on in their skating career, and Johnny is definitely extremely talented in that respect. But that doesn't mean these people will go FURTHER when everyone has reached a certain level. They may just plateau and forever remain at that level. I think Jeremy is naturally more effortless and versatile with his blades and body movement, and responds to music at a more advanced level than Johnny.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by shine View Post
    I don't think Weir is more talented than Abbott in the absolutely sense. Some people PICK UP skating very quickly and are able to learn jumps fairly early on in their skating career, and Johnny is definitely extremely talented in that respect. But that doesn't mean these people will go FURTHER when everyone has reached a certain level.
    I agree with that. Maybe instead of "natural talent," aptitude would be a better word. It's amazing how quickly Weir picked everything up, but no, that doesn't mean he ultimately became a better skater than anyone else in the end. He underachieved in a sense, because if someone can learn the basics so quickly, then you would expect them to go beyond the basics after a few more years. IMO, Weir never really did (in terms of choreography). He was very one note in his style, all of his programs looked the same, and he did not challenge himself with different styles of movement, which Abbott does (flamenco and swing and modern and etc). And with the jumps too - Weir got that gorgeous triple axel right away, yet was never able to move beyond that to a good quad. I think Abbott probably has had to work much harder for everything he achieved, although as I said, he does have a lot of natural ability.

  17. #37
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    I remember Frank C once saying that Johnny is the most talented male skater (in the US or the world? Not sure).

    I attribute Jeremy's improvement to hard work. I remember Tom Dickson saying that Jeremy had a great run of his blades but had trouble balancing (forgot the exact words), so he gave Jeremy figures exercise to do (outside 8?), and how Jeremy still did them as he waited for his name to be called to the ice.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Like any competition, sometimes it's more spectacular than others. Abbott did skate very well at the 2008-9 GPF and at the Cup of China, but he was not spectacular in the Cup of Russia, and the level of competition at the GPF that season wasn't great, IIRC.
    Exactly. It is an exaggeration to say you must peak to win an individual Grand Prix. In the past silvers have gone to gentlemen who never break top ten at Worlds. The GPF is a test run for Worlds/Olympics. It demonstrates a skater's potential for greatness (Czisny, Abbott, Sandhu, Cohen), but GP hardware by itself isn't as significant as pulling off a medal at Worlds/Olympics.

  19. #39
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    A world medal will always beat out a gold at a competition that was started only 17 or so years ago..

  20. #40

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    I'd say Weir by a hair, but he had 10 seasons of competing senior (2000-01 through 2009-10...not counting 2012-13), and Jeremy has had only 8 so far (2005-06 through 2012-13). I'd be tempted to put Jeremy ahead if he wins another National title.

    I agree that a World medal of any color > GPF title.

    Given their respective level of competition, who has had more realistic chances for Olympic and World medals? In other words, which one was better at capitalizing on their opportunities?
    "Marge, if you're going to get mad at me every time I do something stupid, then I guess I'm just going to have to stop doing stupid things!" - Homer Simpson in the Mr. Plow episode

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