Vaitsekhovskaya's article: Wrong argument (on Menshov vs Kovtun and Pluschenko)

[plushyta]

The 'just a journalist' who you called 'an evil bitter woman' is, just like your beloved Pluschenko, an Olympic champion. And yes, Eislauffan is awesome. The slight difference you chose to ignore is that Eislauffan was stating facts, while Vaitsehovskaya voices an opinion. You might disagree with her (as I often do) but calling her name does not make you sound particularly smart.

But she in NOT Olympic champion in Figure Skating!

As I said: she dont have any fact - just speculations with which she manipulate in writing haters articles about Plushenko and Mishin.
Actually, I remember very well her panegyrists of Plushenko - such a change in one's behavior, does not give me any respect for her.

I do not consider myself smart too much, but she called out herself with such "tabloid" articles.

[kwanfan1818]

Voronov actually skated quite well. He hit a 4T-3T in the short (the Axel was a double only, though) and landed a 4T, two 3A (one wobbly) and five triples in the free. His spins were level 3. He basically did what he can do and I would not call his performances dismal. He had the 9th best TES, but he was only 17th in PCS if I counted correctly. Gachinski on the other hand messed up.

In the SP Gachinski blew the combination, but earned more GOE over his base than Voronov, and had two L3 and one L4 spins and L4 footwork, with +GOE on everything but the combo, and he ended up in 16th place after SP. Voronov had one L3, one L4, and one L1 spin, and small -GOE on everything but the combo. Gachinski's PCS saved him in comparison to Voronov, but Voronov couldn't capitalize on the "quad" PCS bonus.

The expectations for Gachinski were far higher, but Voronov, who was as high as 7th at WC's and 4th at EC's, didn't perform well. He wouldn't be the first skater to do well at Nationals and gain a spot at championships, only to underperform.

[TAHbKA]

I don't get why the judges dislike Voronov so much. He is not much worse than the skaters who beat him and it seems the judges used to like him in the past (7th in the Worlds in 2008. Ok, that was before the injury and with Urmanov, but still)...? What have changed?

[ciocio]

In my opinion Plushenko should skip Euros and go to Worlds. It would be better for everybody: RF could send both Menshov and Kovtun at the Euros, Plushenko will get two spots for Sochi, which will make Olympics a lot easier since he won't have to skate in Team event.

[rayhaneh]

I don't get why the judges dislike Voronov so much. He is not much worse than the skaters who beat him and it seems the judges used to like him in the past (7th in the Worlds in 2008. Ok, that was before the injury and with Urmanov, but still)...? What have changed?

Maybe the fact that Morozov gave him zero choreography in the free this year?

Seriously, I really like Voronov and I am happy for him that he had some good performances this season (in particular at CoC) and that he got his ticket for Europe, with a chance to make it to Worlds, but he has one of the emptiest - if not the emptiest - R&J program I have ever seen (and he had quite some competition in that department) so I think his PCs were overall in international competitions pretty fair (I've only seen his Russian Nats performance once, I'd need to rewatch it)

In my opinion Plushenko should skip Euros and go to Worlds. It would be better for everybody: RF could send both Menshov and Kovtun at the Euros, Plushenko will get two spots for Sochi, which will make Olympics a lot easier since he won't have to skate in Team event.

Except, I must agree with Vaitsekhovskaya, tactically he's better off not going up against his competition for the Olympic title unless he's 100% fit, because should he lose against them (and especially should he not even make it on the podium), he'd lose a lot of that psychological advantage he has over them. As it stands, the only thing Chan and the Japanese know about Plushenko is what he has achieved already - the moment they go head-to-head against him in a major competition - and win - he stops being a legend and becomes a mortal again....

[TAHbKA]

Maybe the fact that Morozov gave him zero choreography in the free this year?

Fair enough, but then it's not as if Urmanov's choreography was a highlight.... At least I don't recall it being anything special....

[Moka-Ananas]

Fair enough, but then it's not as if Urmanov's choreography was a highlight.... At least I don't recall it being anything special....

Voronov's tango FS was pretty awesome IIRC. And certainly a lot better than what Morozov has given him so far. At least Urmanov didn't dress Voronov up as a soccer ball.

[rfisher]

And, Voronov got bonus points for having Urmanov standing at the boards. Those judges are human afterall.

[flowerpower]

Except, I must agree with Vaitsekhovskaya, tactically he's better off not going up against his competition for the Olympic title unless he's 100% fit, because should he lose against them (and especially should he not even make it on the podium), he'd lose a lot of that psychological advantage he has over them. As it stands, the only thing Chan and the Japanese know about Plushenko is what he has achieved already - the moment they go head-to-head against him in a major competition - and win - he stops being a legend and becomes a mortal again....

...and becomes a mortal in the eyes of the judges as well.

[VarBar]

I don't get why the judges dislike Voronov so much. He is not much worse than the skaters who beat him and it seems the judges used to like him in the past (7th in the Worlds in 2008. Ok, that was before the injury and with Urmanov, but still)...? What have changed?

Even back in 2008 when Voronov finished 7th at the World Championships, if you look at his marks for the long program, he had the 3rd highest technical elements score but the 9th program components score, he was actually marked by nearly 10 points lower on PCS than TES, so maybe the international judges have always perceived Sergei as being all or mostly about jumps.

You may be missing something!
Considering his age and the number of injuries he has had (and especially the most recent ones), it will take him longer to recover. If he does Europeans and ends his season, he has more time to take break and then start preparing for the next season. If he does Worlds, he will have two months less to recover and prepare for the next season. I know that other skaters will have to manage to do worlds, recover and then start preparing for the next season, but one can argue that his age and his injuries may take a bit longer to recover and prepare.

Also, loosing at worlds this year would potentially damage his reputation and that could have impact on his next season's marks. So if the Russian Federation wants great results from him at the Olympics, I think they understand that he can compete at this year's worlds only if he is really ready.

Thanks for explaining.

[ItalianFan]

...and becomes a mortal in the eyes of the judges as well.

Many assume that Plushenko has no hope against the Japanese or Chan in Sochi given his age and injuries but in Youtube there is a video made a few days ago during the ice shows in Japan where journalists ask Weir, Kulik, Buttle and Candeloro among others to rate the top skaters placement in Sochi. Kulik said that Plushenko is "the greatest skater of all time" and expects him to win. Part of that statement is probably due to Russian solidarity but still I wouldn't be so quick to write him off, mortal or no mortal...chan was not rated as well as Plushenko & Takahashi

[flowerpower]

Many assume that Plushenko has no hope against the Japanese or Chan in Sochi given his age and injuries but in Youtube there is a video made a few days ago during the ice shows in Japan where journalists ask Weir, Kulik, Buttle and Candeloro among others to rate the top skaters placement in Sochi. Kulik said that Plushenko is "the greatest skater of all time" and expects him to win. Part of that statement is probably due to Russian solidarity but still I wouldn't be so quick to write him off, mortal or no mortal...chan was not rated as well as Plushenko & Takahashi

I would never write him off. Plushenko is a remarkable competitor, as well as a remarkable skater, and he may possibly win in Sochi (which would be an historic achievement), though Chan, Takahashi, and others certainly have chances as well.

But strategically, he's better off avoiding head-to-head competition with those others at the moment, for a number of reasons.

ETA: I did not mean that to come across as a negative comment. If Plushy nails his programs in Sochi, hats off to him and I will be on my feet cheering. The former Olympians who commented about skaters' Sochi placement all know how important the mental side of competition is at the Olympics, as well as the technical. Since Plushenko excels in both areas, he will be a formidable competitor at Sochi.

[TAHbKA]

Many assume that Plushenko has no hope against the Japanese or Chan in Sochi given his age and injuries but in Youtube there is a video made a few days ago during the ice shows in Japan where journalists ask Weir, Kulik, Buttle and Candeloro among others to rate the top skaters placement in Sochi. Kulik said that Plushenko is "the greatest skater of all time" and expects him to win. Part of that statement is probably due to Russian solidarity but still I wouldn't be so quick to write him off, mortal or no mortal...chan was not rated as well as Plushenko & Takahashi

And yet it's Chan who keeps winning the Worlds.

Were they asked whether they'd like to come back and compete? Kulik

[rayhaneh]

Many assume that Plushenko has no hope against the Japanese or Chan in Sochi given his age and injuries but in Youtube there is a video made a few days ago during the ice shows in Japan where journalists ask Weir, Kulik, Buttle and Candeloro among others to rate the top skaters placement in Sochi. Kulik said that Plushenko is "the greatest skater of all time" and expects him to win. Part of that statement is probably due to Russian solidarity but still I wouldn't be so quick to write him off, mortal or no mortal...chan was not rated as well as Plushenko & Takahashi

I don't think anyone has been writing Plushenko off - anybody who's been watching figure skating since 2010 or earlier would know better than that

As for that video for Japanese tv, when you said that Chan wasn't rated as well....in a sense you're right, but it was only marginal: Plushenko and Takahashi both got three nods for gold while Chan had two (including Candeloro who edged his bet and said Chan, Plushenko and Takahashi could all get the gold )

I really wouldn't read to much into any of this: as Slustkaya pointed out when they asked the athletes to do the same for the Ladies, it's just too early. Also, when you listen to the argument of why people chose one particular skater as their favorite for a given medal, it was clear that it was also at least in part down to personal preference: Kulik reasoning was that Plushenko was the "greatest skater who had walked the earth" and that it would be historic, so he would be rooting for him (I guess the fact that he's Russian helps too ). He also chose Takahashi for silver because he's one of his all-time favorites. Johnny chose Takahashi as gold, and Plushenko as silver for fairly similar reasons (he's his friend so he's hoping he can medal at home). What was cute was that Johnny specifically said that Hanyu could win (he bet on him for bronze) but in a way, because he's so young, he hoped he'd rather continue further We didn't get to hear Jeffrey's reasoning who was the only one to vote for Chan as gold winner exclusively

So much can happen in a year - I mean, had they done the same kind of "poll" before GPF, it may well be that Chan would have ranked ahead of Takahashi, especially with two lacklusters performances at GPs - but GPF and his free skate at Japanese Nationals have given him momentum in recent weeks

[Susan M]

Has Kovtun gotten his qualifying score yet for Europeans?

[Sylvia]

Kovtun had already attained the minimum TES scores (Euros & Worlds) on the JGP before Russian Nationals.

[Susan M]

Kovtun had already attained the minimum TES scores (Euros & Worlds) on the JGP before Russian Nationals.

Oh, thanks. I guess I'm confused. Was it one of their ladies who needed a qualifying score?

[Ziggy]

Oh, thanks. I guess I'm confused. Was it one of their ladies who needed a qualifying score?

Yes. Kovtun did really well on the JGP.

[kwanfan1818]

Oh, thanks. I guess I'm confused. Was it one of their ladies who needed a qualifying score?

Gosviani. She made both Euros minimums at Nesquick this past weekend. Her SP score also made the Worlds TES SP minimum. She was a few points shy of the Worlds TES FS minimum, but she was competing as a Junior, since there was no Senior singles competition there, and there is one fewer element in Junior FS's (no CH sequence) and the program is shorter in length.