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  1. #481
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaileyCatts View Post
    I don't remember what the phantom tribe twist was at all.
    Me neither. There was one season where I didn't see much (pre-dvr and pre-high speed internet) and we had hockey on Survivor night. I'm assuming that was that season. How did the phantom tribe work?

  2. #482
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    I think that Survivor has played itself out. The last few episodes of this past season (which were as much of it as I watched) were pretty good and I really liked the previous season. But the producers are slipping. They rely far too much on returning players and other gimmicks (Redemption Island, for example) that have little to do with the social psychology aspects of the show that made it so appealing in the first place. There is also something fundamentally wrong with their current screening process; there is no way that Brandon would have cleared the psych evaluation once, let alone twice, in the early seasons.

    Oh, well. It was a good run while it lasted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8er1964 View Post
    Me neither. There was one season where I didn't see much (pre-dvr and pre-high speed internet) and we had hockey on Survivor night. I'm assuming that was that season. How did the phantom tribe work?
    The phantom tribe (aka the outcast tribe) was made up of people who had already been voted out. The first six (??) people voted from the game were kept isolated and on rations and were brought back in for a challenge. They competed against the actual tribes and if they won the challenge, two people could be voted back in by the others in the phantom tribe. After the vote, they drew buffs (one for each tribe), their torches were lit and they were back in the game.

  4. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by sk8er1964 View Post
    Me neither. There was one season where I didn't see much (pre-dvr and pre-high speed internet) and we had hockey on Survivor night. I'm assuming that was that season. How did the phantom tribe work?
    That was Pearl Islands--Sandra's first win, Lil the Scoutmaster, Johnny Fairplay and his "dead" grandmother, Rupert the pirate, Osten the first contestant to quit, and assorted other memorable things that kind of make even people who watched that season forget that there was a ghost tribe.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

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    Hmmm. I remember Johnny Fairplay and dead grandma, and Rupert and Lil and Sandra - but nothing about the phantom tribe. I think you're right.

    Must have been another season I missed most of - would have been between 2007-2009 time frame.

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    Sandra!!

    I do remember those others too (well, not Osten ... why did he quit?), definitely remember "Fairplay" and the dead grandma (gawd how I hated him!), but I don't remember anything about the phantom tribe at all. Guess you are right!

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    The dead grandma was awesome in its evilness.

  8. #488
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    Lil was one of the people voted out who came back in the phantom tribe.

    Osten was absolutely useless in challenges--all muscles, no drive. He volunteered to be voted out, but when Jeff found out at Tribal Council, he made Osten quit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruzCnRyQwI4

    Little did Jeff know what the future would hold in the way of quitters.

    I'd forgotten Tijuana's squeaky cartoon voice Not that Darrah's nasal twang was much better.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  9. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    That was Pearl Islands--Sandra's first win, Lil the Scoutmaster, Johnny Fairplay and his "dead" grandmother, Rupert the pirate, Osten the first contestant to quit, and assorted other memorable things that kind of make even people who watched that season forget that there was a ghost tribe.
    Osten didn't quit!!!!

    That and the "Jenna and Heidi stripping for peanut butter" are my two biggest pet peeves in incorrectly promoted (by TPTB) Survivor lore
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  10. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erin View Post
    I think that some other twists have worked well - tribal shakeups/switches are old hat now, but a massive shocker when first introduced in Season 3 and there are still many times when the tribal swap contributes to alliances changing and re-forming. The HII is also pretty old by now and while there are some seasons where it has no impact, some of the best tribal councils have come as a result of the HIIs, so I would say that on the whole, it has been a successful twist.
    I don't like tribe switches as it messes with the developing strategies that I'm more interested. Occasionally they have sent one tribe member to visit another's tribe - I recall Russell's first season - and I think that's interesting and could be better used. They also used to bring one member of each tribe together for a summit - remember Boston Rob and Kathy? - and that resulted in some interesting dynamics as well.

    The reward challenges where the winner has to surprise! pick someone to go along and then surprise! pick another person are getting tiresome, as are the ones where half of them go and half of them don't. Just breaks things up too much when we need more air time of what's happening back at camp.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fridge_Break View Post
    It's used as a safety net for when the producer's favorites are voted out. It also completely hogs up a massive amount of airtime, and also eliminates all reward challenges -- boo.
    Maybe so. Remember the book that chronicled season one? It was interesting because the show started airing before the game was finished, and Burnett was writing the book as it went along, so there's less of the slick packaging to build their storylines and conclusion, and more of a Big Brother rollout where no one knows how it will end until it does. Anyway, Burnett talks about a few times where they had to wing it, as they were learning just like the rest of us.

    However, while we want to call konspiracy all the time, I do think the machine is pretty big and well oiled at this point to be doing things like switching around challenges to favour certain players. After all, even when you think someone's going to be a lock or a disaster at something, there are always surprises. I think where manipulation comes in is sometimes Jeff's leading questions at TC, and in the initial casting when they are clearly trying to set up certain dynamics.

    Anyone watch BB Canada this season? I was talking to someone who worked on the show and told them that fans were highly suspect of the timing of the return a player vote, because it resulted in the season's most interesting and colourful character returning to the game, which surely the producers wanted to happen. This person told me that before the season started they got a giant manual that laid out every episode - exactly when there would be double evictions, what challenges would happen when, and when exactly the return vote would happen, and it's exactly the script they followed. Getting Gary back was just lucky.

    There are hundreds of people involved in these things, so I do think making arbitrary decisions to manipulate the game, while certainly not impossible, isn't very likely.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    There are hundreds of people involved in these things, so I do think making arbitrary decisions to manipulate the game, while certainly not impossible, isn't very likely.
    While Survivor is also laid out in advance, the show has both the contractual right and the ability to change things on the fly. This is necessary because of the weather, if nothing else. This tends to make people suspicious of everything that happens and leads to a lot of conspiracy theories about producer manipulation.

    Redemption Island, OTOH, was openly acknowledged to have been included as a way to give returning players a chance to stay in the game longer, as the producers anticipated that the returning players would be targeted immediately and they wanted to give the returnees a shot at getting back in the game. The challenges themselves are not manipulated; if they were, Russell would have played longer. Jeff has made a couple of mistakes calling challenges over the years and they've had to pay off cast members for those mistakes, but otherwise, the challenges have been scrupulously clean. Some cast members have accused the producers of trying to manipulate them during interviews by pushing them toward or away from certain actions, but I don't think even the angriest cast member has ever even hinted that the challenges are rigged in any way.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

  12. #492

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Maybe so. Remember the book that chronicled season one? It was interesting because the show started airing before the game was finished, and Burnett was writing the book as it went along, so there's less of the slick packaging to build their storylines and conclusion, and more of a Big Brother rollout where no one knows how it will end until it does. Anyway, Burnett talks about a few times where they had to wing it, as they were learning just like the rest of us.
    Except it didn't. I think that reward challenge Kelly went on where she watched the first episode might be confusing people because I've seen this statement before. But Survivor 1 filmed Mar-Apr 2000 and started airing the end of May.

  13. #493
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    oops my bad, and now that I think of it I've been corrected before on this point! Just looked up and here's the Wiki page that gives the exact filming air dates - March 13-Apr 20, and premiere was May 31.

    But there's still a point to be made - they would have had to start editing the show before it finished (unless they had a very big budget), so far less opportunity to do what they do now in leaving stuff out they think doesn't fit their storylines, giving some players different edits depending on what happens later in the game etc.

  14. #494
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Jeff has made a couple of mistakes calling challenges over the years and they've had to pay off cast members for those mistakes, but otherwise, the challenges have been scrupulously clean.
    The incident I remember most clearly was from S3 Africa, where there was a question about cast member tattoos in the final challenge (I think? although final challenges tend to be balance/stamina based, not questions), I think Big Tom was eliminated even though his answer was right. They had to pay him the same amount as the runner-up.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesy View Post
    Except it didn't. I think that reward challenge Kelly went on where she watched the first episode might be confusing people because I've seen this statement before. But Survivor 1 filmed Mar-Apr 2000 and started airing the end of May.
    I've brought that up before - I thought the same thing, because in the show, the implication was that she was watching what we had seen, and therefore the show had started airing. Someone here (probably Prancer ) schooled me that she was watching an edit of the first ep, but it had not actually aired yet.
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  15. #495

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    I have posted this before... I think a fun season would be to do one just like Season 1. People would be searching for HII and nothing. So no tribe switching -just the merge. I think it would be amusing as people would be stressing about switches or returnees and HII and have none of it.
    Love reading the about the history. I usually don't like rewatching tv shows, but it would be fun to see some of the earlier ones.

  16. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Some cast members have accused the producers of trying to manipulate them during interviews by pushing them toward or away from certain actions, but I don't think even the angriest cast member has ever even hinted that the challenges are rigged in any way.
    Of course, there was the infamous Stacey Stillman lawsuit from Season 1 where she claimed the voting was rigged. I never found out where that ended up though...

  17. #497
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    Quote Originally Posted by smurfy View Post
    I have posted this before... I think a fun season would be to do one just like Season 1. People would be searching for HII and nothing. So no tribe switching -just the merge. I think it would be amusing as people would be stressing about switches or returnees and HII and have none of it.
    I love that idea! Better yet, give them clues that lead nowhere

    And how about for rewards, the winner takes no one - they go by themselves, thus without an opportunity to do any favours for anyone and they are stuck without the tribe for a day. Then everyone wonders if that will happen again, so they have to decide whether they actually want to win.

    I'm also still gunning for the same idea I've been harping about for years - a season of experts. They've had a few over the years, but never a whole season of people who each bring some advantage to the game based on their background, profession, skills etc. Like a survivalist, a professional negotiator, a champion puzzler, an elected politician, an obstacle course champ, a jury consultant etc etc. They don't tell them what's going on, each thinks they have something special, some will likely try to hide it, others will figure it out. Maybe include a champion from another country - someone who has played the game and won, but not one of our retreads who everyone would recognize.

  18. #498

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    When I get on Survivor, I will win the family challenge. And I will promptly pass it on to the person who I want to have voted out and let them decide who gets the family visit. Yes, I will be that bitch. I said it.
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  19. #499
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayar View Post
    When I get on Survivor, I will win the family challenge. And I will promptly pass it on to the person who I want to have voted out and let them decide who gets the family visit. Yes, I will be that bitch. I said it.
    Not a bad idea actually, because you'd probably get the reward anyway because the other person would worry about looking like a jerk for not returning the favour, so you'd look like a hero and not make any enemies in the process.

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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    The incident I remember most clearly was from S3 Africa, where there was a question about cast member tattoos in the final challenge (I think? although final challenges tend to be balance/stamina based, not questions), I think Big Tom was eliminated even though his answer was right. They had to pay him the same amount as the runner-up.
    Piercings, not tattoos, and Lex more than Big Tom, but yeah There was another "how well do you know the others" challenge that had the same problem, and so we haven't seen a "how well do you know your tribemates" challenge in a long time.

    There was also a challenge where the contestants had to run a ropes challenge, attaching themselves to the ropes with carabiners, and Colby didn't click on one of the ropes correctly. Jeff missed it, Colby won, and there was a payout there. And then there was another one that I don't remember in detail at the moment, but I am pretty sure it was on All Stars.

    Quote Originally Posted by KHenry14 View Post
    Of course, there was the infamous Stacey Stillman lawsuit from Season 1 where she claimed the voting was rigged. I never found out where that ended up though...
    The suit was settled, but her complaint was that Mark Burnett talked two of the other players into changing his vote in order to keep Rudy on the show. Burnett admitted talking to them about it; one of the players supported Stillman and said he was pressured, but the other person said that Burnett talked to him but advised him to vote his conscience.

    Other players have mentioned things like that from time to time--that producers will talk to them about making certain plays but will always leave the final decision up to the players. That is supposed to be one of the things that has made Erik so angry about this season--he was said to have been very "uncooperative" with the producers during filming and has made some oblique comments about refusing to be their puppet.
    "The secret to creativity is knowing how to hide your sources."-- Albert Einstein.

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