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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by merrywidow View Post
    Do you think Eric has the brains to figure out that he was left out of the "vote Brenda tonight" decision?
    Judging only from what was shown and not having read any spoilers, I think that he may have I]chosen[/I] (1) not to vote for Brenda and (2) not to tell her that she was in danger of being blindsided. I think Cochran is going to win, but I wouldn't be shocked if Eddie or Erik somehow managed to snatch the victory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fridge_Break View Post
    The backlash against Dawn on Twitter and Facebook has been unbelievably bad. I feel for her -- it can't be easy considering how emotionally fragile she is. Yes she put a knife in Brenda's back, but so did Cochran. And this is a game. It's Survivor. This is not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. I just hope for her own stability that she's not boo'ed on Sunday at the reunion.


    It's a game Dawn chose to play. A game that she knows is watched by millions of people. :shrug:
    Last edited by Vagabond; 05-09-2013 at 08:37 PM.

  2. #342
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    Out of all the crappy things that happened to Brenda in the episode, I actually felt most sorry for her having to sit with Dawn and deal with her hysterics after the challenge. I actually believe Brenda was satisfied emotionally with the visit from her dad and achieving a win together and if she could've gone back to camp alone, she would've been fine. Dawn was perfectly happy, as a non-winner, being taken along as an act of charity by Brenda, but flipped out when that gift was given to the others... please. She wasn't entitled to anything. She's coming off more mentally unhinged than Brandon.

  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fridge_Break View Post
    The backlash against Dawn on Twitter and Facebook has been unbelievably bad. I feel for her -- it can't be easy considering how emotionally fragile she is. Yes she put a knife in Brenda's back, but so did Cochran. And this is a game. It's Survivor. This is not the first time this has happened and it won't be the last. I just hope for her own stability that she's not boo'ed on Sunday at the reunion.
    I just looked at her Facebook page. The c-word being dropped, comparisons to Hitler et al. Just wow.

  4. #344
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    I remember well the vitriol spewed at Lil during and after her season - people felt she was a true hypocrite for participating in a game when she talked constantly about playing with the same qualities that she held dear as a Scout Leader, when of course at the end she had to participate in some good ol' Survivor backstabbing just like the rest of them. No surprise that the jury is most bitter toward Dawn, and not Cochran, on that count.

    I thought Dawn's anger at not getting the reward was OTT, but I think she also got some highly stylized and unfortunate (for her) editing around that moment. She's right that she neither got the reward nor the social benefit of the magnanimous gesture, and when you're hungry it's hard to think outside that moment - she also didn't get the backlash of the magnanimous gesture, which obviously smacked Brenda in the face, hard.

    I think Dawn's got zero chance for winning - not only are people already bitter about her sudden razor-sharp strategic decisions, but I am at the thought of how she will do under final TC questioning. She may may Amanda look like the most composed and confident TC player in comparison.

    I watched Brenda's Ponderosa vid and they're all commiserating, and she's got this voice-over about how all these people know what it's like to have people just turn on you so cruelly....cut to Andrea asking Brenda is she knew about the vote (for Andrea). Brenda: oh, um, yeah, I knew about that...and then she goes back to how awful it is to be blindsided and aren't they all together in their victimhood

    To be fair, she later says she's not angry at anyone, it's just a game. Phillip: give it a few days.
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  5. #345
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    I don't understand why nobody is targeting the couple. Doesn't anyone who plays this game know that you NEVER let a couple move forward week after week after week? If Erik, Sherri and Eddie have even a tiny amount of brain matter in their heads, they will becoming a voting block of three and take out Cochrane and then Dawn. What's the likelihood of any of these three having a tiny bit of brain matter though...........
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  6. #346

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterG View Post
    I don't understand why nobody is targeting the couple. Doesn't anyone who plays this game know that you NEVER let a couple move forward week after week after week? If Erik, Sherri and Eddie have even a tiny amount of brain matter in their heads, they will becoming a voting block of three and take out Cochrane and then Dawn. What's the likelihood of any of these three having a tiny bit of brain matter though...........
    Agreed, but do any of them know how tight Dawn and Cochran are? I think they've actually managed to downplay their alliance quite well.

  7. #347
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    Cochran and Dawn aren't really a "couple" - they were pretty firmly in the alliance of 6, and Dawn's primary strategic allegiance was previously to Phillip, and her friendship one was to Brenda (although didn't Corinne say she told Dawn about her plan because she thought the two of them were super tight? Maybe Dawn is better at the game than it looks from home). now that their core alliance is being gutted, they're looking more like a couple, but it's pretty clear they are an alliance only as long as it suits them.

    but it's been made pretty clear that Sherri and Eddie are not master strategists, and while Erik has moments of exteme clarity, he seems to be playing a game both inside and outside all alliances and strategy.
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  8. #348

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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post

    but it's been made pretty clear that Sherri and Eddie are not master strategists, and while Erik has moments of exteme clarity, he seems to be playing a game both inside and outside all alliances and strategy.
    I find myself really liking Erik this time around but I'm not sure why.

  9. #349
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    Hormones.

  10. #350

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenny View Post
    Hormones.

  11. #351

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    I kind of feel Dawn was stupid last time around. But this time ? She's more than stupid if she wants to win. Backstabbing Brenda was the last thing she should have done to win this.

    Cochran is a winner I won't enjoy a lot. Because really, I don't feel he deserves it at all.

  12. #352

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    Cochran is probably the only one I would say deserves the win at this point. Though I will laugh and laugh if that bit about Eddie going on an immunity tear and making it to the finals comes true; especially with this jury that has the potential to be so bitter. If only Corinne could have made it in instead of Matt or Mike or whoever the name of the first juror is.

  13. #353
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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    No surprise that the jury is most bitter toward Dawn, and not Cochran, on that count.
    Dawn has made it a point to create relationships with everyone in the game; it's what she does normally--she's like the neighborhood mom. And everyone has comforted her emotionally and helped her through her meltdowns; that scene with Brenda and Dawn's teeth? That was shown just to make that point.

    Cochran has been playing a more cerebral, less emotional game. People like him, but he isn't their substitute mom figure. He has always been The Fan--the guy whose watched Survivor all these years and is a student of the game. No one is going to be surprised when Cochran makes a move because they don't see it as personal.

    And we also all got to see Brenda putting Cochran on the block; again, not a coincidence. Brenda will be angry at Dawn, not at Cochran.

    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    Cochran and Dawn aren't really a "couple" - they were pretty firmly in the alliance of 6, and Dawn's primary strategic allegiance was previously to Phillip, and her friendship one was to Brenda (although didn't Corinne say she told Dawn about her plan because she thought the two of them were super tight? Maybe Dawn is better at the game than it looks from home).
    Everyone who has been booted so far has expressed surprise that Dawn and Cochran are so close. No one was aware of it at the time. And most of them thought that Dawn was their bestest friend out there. Dawn has said that she wasn't at all insincere in those friendships; it's just that there are friendships and there is the game.

    But that Mom thing is going to kill her. Your friends can backstab you in a game, but your mom can't.

    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    while Erik has moments of exteme clarity, he seems to be playing a game both inside and outside all alliances and strategy.
    Erik studied past seasons to prepare himself for this and decided that Sandra's game was the one to follow--anyone but me.
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  14. #354

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    To be fair to Dawn, people are vilifying her because Brenda's exit was so emotional. If Andrea had broken out in loud sobs, would we have called Brenda an evil witch? What happened to Brenda and Andrea was exactly the same (you shouldn't factor goodwill gifts into the equation in a game like this) except while Brenda took it very personally and emotionally, Andrea laughed and shook it off because SHE remembered it was just a game. Perspective is everything.

  15. #355
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spareoom View Post
    To be fair to Dawn, people are vilifying her because Brenda's exit was so emotional. If Andrea had broken out in loud sobs, would we have called Brenda an evil witch? What happened to Brenda and Andrea was exactly the same (you shouldn't factor goodwill gifts into the equation in a game like this) except while Brenda took it very personally and emotionally, Andrea laughed and shook it off because SHE remembered it was just a game. Perspective is everything.
    No, it's not exactly the same.

    1. Dawn specifically asked Brenda to find her retainer at the bottom of that pond and said that she would quit right then and there if Brenda didn't find it.
    2. Brenda went out on a limb by picking Dawn to share the "Loved Ones" reward with her, demonstrating once and for all that her closest alliance was with Dawn.
    3. Brenda had just been put in an impossible situation of having to choose between making her own family happy (particularly her sister, who had made an intercontinental flight and didn't get to see her) and dashing the hopes of four other players.

    None of that was true of Andrea.

    Dawn is a selfish jerk passing herself off as an Earth Mother.

  16. #356
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    Weren't Dawn and Cochran previously on Survivor during the same season? And they worked together all season until one turned on the other? If I was on Survivor, anyone who had been on a previous season together would be assumed a couple. If they had worked together at some point, they would DEFINITELY be on my radar. And if one turning on the other was the downfall of both...and it would make sense this season for them to work as a couple and not make the same mistake as last time...I would DEFINITELY target both to be gone as SOON as possible.
    It's official. I am madly in love with Meryl Davis.

  17. #357
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    I have no issue with what was done to Brenda. That was the risk and that's part of the game. What bothers me is that Dawn is under the delusion that she's such a strategic player and positioned herself to make it to the end. Which is not the case. Yes, she betrayed Brenda (I have to assume Brenda recognized Dawn's handwriting). But even worse, she doesn't acknowledge how much her survival thus far has been attributed to others bucking her up and not her own inner strength.

    The irony is that Dawn is now the best person to take to the final 2, so in that sense she "wins", even as a second place finisher.

  18. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Prancer View Post
    Erik studied past seasons to prepare himself for this and decided that Sandra's game was the one to follow--anyone but me.
    Interesting, and perhaps the smartest thing possible. She's the all-time most successful player in Survivor history - played twice, won twice - and yet is often forgotten among the great players, and very few have employed her strategy, let alone successfully.

    I was going to ask earlier how Erik had survived this long having other players questioning his loyalty - usually being unpredictable is the worst thing you can do. But now I see it - I haven't watched much of this season, but if he's unlocked the secret of Sandra's success, then maybe he'll win. And what a worthy adversary for Cochran if so - would be great to see the two strategies go head to head in the finale.

    And given that Cochran is perhaps the most knowledgeable student of the game to have ever played, does he see what Erik's doing? And does he think he can talk his way around it at final TC? Because that's the ace up Cochran's sleeve.

  19. #359
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Dawn is a selfish jerk passing herself off as an Earth Mother.
    wow, I don't think either parts of that sentence are true. I think Dawn is a genuinely nice and caring person, but very sensitive and emotional person who is trying to play a game that favors stealth (ugh, I hate that Phillip has ruined that word forever), strategy, and the ability to detach. She's experiencing a ton of upheaval and dissonance, she's completely paranoid and unable to put on a game face about it. She's also got a healthy does of the hypocrisy that most players who get far in the game have - what they do to others is necessary gameplay, but any move against them is a complete betrayal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bostonfan View Post
    The irony is that Dawn is now the best person to take to the final 2, so in that sense she "wins", even as a second place finisher.
    Sherri is hands down the best person to have in the finals with anyone else. Even the bitterest jury would never hand her the million.

    Re: Erik and Sandra's strategy - he may have studied it, but he hasn't copied it. Sandra was very open about her "anyone but me" strategy both times she played, and she was completely cutthroat in her decisions. Sandra would never be on the wrong side of her alliance votes like Erik has been so many times. But that just means he's taken her strategy and turned it into something new. We really haven't gotten much airtime on his thinking process, and what we have seen has made Erik seem really out of touch, or we get a very insightful comment and then the voting goes in a direction that makes him seem totally out of the loop. Yet he's still here and rarely seems to be a target. And we know he's a very sharp guy. That's what I meant up thread by his playing both inside and outside the game - I blame editing for mucking up his story, because he's definitely got a game, it's just completely out of sync with what we've been shown.

    Erik is known for making one of the dumbest moves in Survivor history, and his editing shows him as a spacy loopy guy. It would actually be awesome if he was using his reputation to hide what a shrewd game he's got going on. Based on his edit I have a hard time seeing him win, though. At least, if he does win, I'll feel really gypped as a viewer.

    We were supposed to get a F3 this season, right? Now that it looks like someone leaves the game, will it be F2? I hope so.

    Also - I probably won't get to watch this on Sunday it will be so hard to stay unspoiled and avoid the thread until possibly Tuesday!
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  20. #360
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    Quote Originally Posted by genevieve View Post
    Re: Erik and Sandra's strategy - he may have studied it, but he hasn't copied it. Sandra was very open about her "anyone but me" strategy both times she played, and she was completely cutthroat in her decisions. Sandra would never be on the wrong side of her alliance votes like Erik has been so many times. But that just means he's taken her strategy and turned it into something new. We really haven't gotten much airtime on his thinking process, and what we have seen has made Erik seem really out of touch, or we get a very insightful comment and then the voting goes in a direction that makes him seem totally out of the loop. Yet he's still here and rarely seems to be a target. And we know he's a very sharp guy. That's what I meant up thread by his playing both inside and outside the game - I blame editing for mucking up his story, because he's definitely got a game, it's just completely out of sync with what we've been shown.
    Although Sandra described her strategy as "anyone but me," it was more sophisticated than that, especially in her second season. She paid careful attention to other players' strategies and alliances, held back enough that others took the responsibility for any double-crossing, and managed to surf on top of the waves all the way to victory.

    I do see a certain similarity in the way Erik has played, but, as others have said upthread, Cochran is getting the winner's edit. That doesn't mean Cochran actually win. In the Guatemala season, for example, Danielle was virtually invisible (and silent) for several episodes, whereas Rafe seemed to have the winner's edit, but she won in the end. There is only so much the editors and producers can do in shaping the story line when players like Danielle, vecepia, Natalie, Bob, and Jud ("Fabio") win.


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