Downton Abbey -- Season 3 on PBS

[nubka]

Robert's been a schmuck this whole season. I know he's having problems with all the changes in his life but geez. At some point the guy's gonna have to suck it up and go with the flow. Him and Carson both.

Robert will go with the flow eventually, but Carson...never!

[Yehudi]

Well at least Carson didn't get a mouse in his pants this time...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xincd-Qu1I

[IceAlisa]

I'd say that by the time they even started to argue about it, it was too late. Possibly earlier on in the day, or the day before maybe. But by that point. Nope.

Yes, I think this could be true. If they'd started seeing it days before and acted, possibly. This show made me so thankful for modern medicine again and again.

[jlai]

Thank god Carson will probably not live long enough to go through what Stevens did in Remains of the Day

[Icetalavista]

one of my fave Dowager moments in the last episode was her commentary on marriage among "their" set: "People like us are never unhappily married. We just see less of each other than we might like." (or close to that). PML. hysterical writing.

Really, really want Daisy to take that farm job. Her FIL is a progressive man. Ditto Edith and the writing job.

Did I miss something, or did Mary *really* hear Sybil say she'd be ok w/ a Catholic child? Or is she being supportive of Tom? I was amazed that Mary ACTUALLY PUSHED BACK to paPA. bout effin time.

[centerstage01]

He got her money, she gave him kids (not a boy, which is a letdown, but still.) Read "To Marry An English Lord" and be astounded at how unlikely they'd be happily married really is. Land-rich cash-poor Englishmen marrying rich American heiresses for their money was a huge trend (and I find it kinda hard to believe Cora's mother was always as dismissive of England and the English systems as it never was an accident, it was a campaign and Mama had to be on board. Scoring a Countess's coronet was a plum catch.) A few eventually fell in love, a lot more had discrete affairs and eventually just got divorced. I can't recall who Sir Anthony was talking about when he and Edith mentioned did Duke and Duchess so and so finally get divorced, but I do remember it was a real couple and real divorce, from a marriage that had kind of been a joke for years.

That was Consuelo Vanderbilt, Duchess of Marlborough. Basically, she got roped into the marriage by her rather bullying mother because Mom wanted the glory of an English title and the Duke wanted the Vanderbilt millions. Consuelo managed to give her husband two sons, but they weren't in love and everyone knew it. They separated in 1906 but weren't officially divorced until 1921.

[IceAlisa]

Did I miss something, or did Mary *really* hear Sybil say she'd be ok w/ a Catholic child? Or is she being supportive of Tom? I was amazed that Mary ACTUALLY PUSHED BACK to paPA. bout effin time.

They did have a conversation about that. Sybil said that she was OK with the child being Catholic. Mary said it was her (Sybil's) child too but Sybil said she didn't mind and that she loved Tom so much. At this Mary said she'd support her. And then when the time came she kept her promise. Baby Sybbie is very cute.

[cygnus]

That was Consuelo Vanderbilt, Duchess of Marlborough. Basically, she got roped into the marriage by her rather bullying mother because Mom wanted the glory of an English title and the Duke wanted the Vanderbilt millions. Consuelo managed to give her husband two sons, but they weren't in love and everyone knew it. They separated in 1906 but weren't officially divorced until 1921.

Yes, it was an epic disaster of a marriage. Consuelo (18 at the time) was in love with another man at the time of the wedding and had to be threatened and bullied by her mother to go through with it. The groom was a first cousin of Winston Churchill (himself the product of an American/British aristocratic match, but his parents married for love against their families' wishes, although the love did not last). After her divorce, Consuelo made a happy 2nd marriage to a French man (not an aristocrat).

[mrr50]

It was nice to hear Daisy mention William and actually say she had been married. Maybe she is starting to value William in hindsight.

[danceronice]

They did have a conversation about that. Sybil said that she was OK with the child being Catholic. Mary said it was her (Sybil's) child too but Sybil said she didn't mind and that she loved Tom so much. At this Mary said she'd support her. And then when the time came she kept her promise. Baby Sybbie is very cute.

Yep--Sybil even said, if I heard it correctly, she believed in God but not really in a church, so if raising their child Catholic made Tom happy, she was happy. And I don't think Robert (or the vicar, if he were honest with himself) is objecting on genuine faith grounds rather on a deeply ingrained anti-Catholicism and classism, plus anti-Irish sentiment. (As far as form and function go High Anglicanism and Catholicism aren't that different, unsurprising given Henry VIII would have objected to being called a Protestant--as HE saw it, the *Pope* was the heretic who had usurped the authority of kings and he was running the true Church in England. He burned as many Lutherans as Catholics. Yes, he sort of talked himself into it when he couldn't get his way sticking within the church, but the articles of faith he created were basically Catholicism with the serial numbers removed.)

I thought it was the Marlboroughs but couldn't remember (and I don't have the DVDs yet...soon...soooooon...okay, maybe I have a small addiction issue with Downton.) She managed to wrangle an annulment on the grounds of coercion, which kept her sons with the Duke from being declared illegitimate, so she could marry her Frenchman in the Catholic church. Jennie Jerome (Churchill) was even MORE scandalous, she remarried a MUCH younger man. Everyone was horrified (especially since that meant he wasn't getting an heir out of that marriage.) One elderly dowager, when asked what she was doing walking around the nurses and children in Hyde park, retorted "Searching in the perambulators for my future husband." (And is it bad I can see the Dowager Countess saying that?)

[skatingfan5]

Jennie Jerome (Churchill) was even MORE scandalous, she remarried a MUCH younger man. Everyone was horrified (especially since that meant he wasn't getting an heir out of that marriage.) One elderly dowager, when asked what she was doing walking around the nurses and children in Hyde park, retorted "Searching in the perambulators for my future husband."

Jennie had TWO marriages to younger men after she was widowed -- the first was the same age as Winston and her third husband was a few years younger than that. There was a mini-series about her life decades ago, starring Lee Remick as Jennie.

[skatingfan5]

Tom's a common man, so maybe Matthew could use him to help with the tenament farmers? I can see it now: Daisy goes to run the Mason farm, gets close to Tom, and they hook up. I would pay money to see Daisy eating "upstairs" with the family (OK - that's not likely, but still fun to think about)

I could see the possibility of Tom helping run the tenant farms, especially if there were improvements made to help the tenants, but Tom and Daisy?

Yikes! Daisy eating "upstairs"? Just the thought of Robert's reaction is hilarious.

Yes, the thought of Robert's reaction might be hilarious -- but my own reaction of Daisy & Tom is

I like the idea of Daisy and Tom. Now I won't mind if she goes to the farm. My first thought was - no Daisy, I don't want you to leave. And maybe she is realizing what a bunch of twits she is working with - she will leave. I think it is so sweet how Thomas's father truly sees her as his daughter and she is accepting it - slowly. Also, compared to most of the characters - Daisy has really grown up over the 3 seasons.

Tom and Daisy would be the height of ridiculousness. While it's true that Daisy's character has grown a bit over the years, the thought of Tom ever being attracted to her after Sybil is just bizarre. It wasn't just Sybil's beauty that captured Tom's interest -- it was her mind, her personality, her drive to be involved. While viewed by some as being of the same "servant/service class" and thus more or less equal, they are continents apart. Tom was always reading political and historical things (Sir Robert gave him permission to use his library when he first came to work at Downton); I don't recall Daisy ever reading anything much beyond a recipe (although at least she wasn't addicted to the celebrity magazines like Ethel was). Daisy is a good sort and deserves some happiness, but Tom is certainly not at all a good partner for her nor she for him.

[Latte]

I think Tom and Edith would make a good couple, but that would be so weird.

[Artemis@BC]

It was nice to hear Daisy mention William and actually say she had been married. Maybe she is starting to value William in hindsight.

She always valued him, and always had affection for him. She just felt a tremendous amount of guilt for agreeing to marry him when she didn't love him as much as he loved her, and she felt somewhat manipulated into the situation. Which was entirely understandable, I'd have felt the same way. Doesn't mean she didn't value him, and she certainly has gained a closeness to his father.

If this storyline even begins to hint at William's father feeling anything other than fatherly for Daisy, though... I'm going to have to throw something at the TV.

[Bostonfan]

I didn't pick up on any hints that William's father feels anything other than fatherly. Not a whiff. I'm positive that's not going to change.

[Maofan7]

Jennie had TWO marriages to younger men after she was widowed -- the first was the same age as Winston and her third husband was a few years younger than that. There was a mini-series about her life decades ago, starring Lee Remick as Jennie.

The series was called Jennie: Lady Randolph Churchill. It was made in 1974. Lee Remick was superb. Anne Bancroft played Jennie Churchill in the film, Young Winston, and was equally as good.

[Artemis@BC]

I didn't pick up on any hints that William's father feels anything other than fatherly. Not a whiff. I'm positive that's not going to change.

No, I haven't either. And I'm fairly confident it won't. But wouldn't say 100% certainty about anything in this show. They've thrown some stuff at us before!

BTW, I love the idea of Daisy taking over the farm too ... except that they'd have to come up with some convincing reason for her to stay in the picture re: the rest of the characters. They haven't said, but I got the impression that the farm is not part of the Downton estate but rather a little ways off.

[nlyoung]

They haven't said, but I got the impression that the farm is not part of the Downton estate but rather a little ways off.

No, it was made clear that the farm is owned by the estate with Daisy's father-in-law as tenant. He told Daisy he was sure they'd be receptive to her taking over the tenancy if they asked, but that all the equipment and stock was his own.

[Alixana]

[QUOTE=Artemis@BC;3826671If this storyline even begins to hint at William's father feeling anything other than fatherly for Daisy, though... I'm going to have to throw something at the TV.[/QUOTE]

God, I hope not .. I'll need an airsick bag.

[JasperBoy]

[QUOTE=Artemis@BC;3826671
If this storyline even begins to hint at William's father feeling anything other than fatherly for Daisy, though... I'm going to have to throw something at the TV.[/QUOTE]

I caught a whiff of that during their scene together. Very icky.