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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Didn't Vanessa James have some French connections and possibly lived in France before as well?
    Not that I'm aware of. I think she only moved there when she partnered with Bonheur. As late as fall 2007 she was still competing for Great Britain internationally.

    I think Papa Boria wouldn't have paired Reed and Rogov up if the citizenship couldn't be sorted.
    Papa Boria vs. Eli Yishai... yeah, I'm going to give this one to Yishai and his minions, if it comes to that.

    They couldn't even get Tamar Katz to Vancouver, even though she'd qualified and had citizenship.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post
    Kaitlyn was barely a "resident" of Canada for three years, even though she lives and trains in Michigan, and she did NOT have to give up her American citizenship. She did not obtain a world medal before then, either, and was banking on the "future merits" of getting 2nd at nationals to become an Olympian. Is that fair?
    Weaver/Poje trained in Canada -- Kitchener/Waterloo and Toronto -- until 2009, the year she was granted citizenship. The residency rules for citizenship are three years physical residency of four after receiving Permanent Resident status. I'm not sure how long it took for Weaver to be granted PR status after she and Poje teamed up, but she neither had the full three years of residency requirements nor went through the standard citizenship application process, which can take up to two years. That's why the established exception process was used.

    As far as fairness, each country sets up its own rules and aims for granting citizenship. Canada has many avenues for becoming a resident and eventually citizenship and immigration is largely one way in. Lithuania, at least modern sovereign Lithuania, does not. That Canada has different standards for detemining the basis for making an exception has little to do with fairness and all to do with sovereignty.

    As far as figure skaters vs. scientists in the US goes, Levin didn't create a hierarchy among those in the "extraordinary" category: the US Congress did when they amended Levin's amendment as part of the negotiations to pass an appropriations bill.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Not that I'm aware of. I think she only moved there when she partnered with Bonheur. As late as fall 2007 she was still competing for Great Britain internationally.
    Ah sorry it was Canada she was born in and had roots to.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post



    Those are some wild assumptions.

    I remember her as a young girl at the rink and she was the absolute least talented but her super pushy mother turned her into a world class ice dancer??? How does that happen?? hmmmmm

  5. #45
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    Yeah, cuz her "pushy mother" is the one who's been putting in the hours of work practicing, and then performing the programs before international judging. Apparently Tobias did absolutely nothing to get to the level she's at.

    I don't even care about this team (well, I wish he had a stronger partner), but some people in this thread are just bitchy for the sake of it. Shocking, on FSU, I know!
    I am free of all prejudices. I hate everyone equally.~W. C. Fields

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    Yeah, cuz her "pushy mother" is the one who's been putting in the hours of work practicing, and then performing the programs before international judging. Apparently Tobias did absolutely nothing to get to the level she's at.
    This.

    Give the girl some credit, even if you have some personal issue with the family. She worked hard, the couple has done well - this is a very saddening setback.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kasey View Post
    Yeah, cuz her "pushy mother" is the one who's been putting in the hours of work practicing, and then performing the programs before international judging. Apparently Tobias did absolutely nothing to get to the level she's at.

    I don't even care about this team (well, I wish he had a stronger partner), but some people in this thread are just bitchy for the sake of it. Shocking, on FSU, I know!
    The real question is out of all the girls out there, how is it that this girl was able to even have the opportunity to perform those programs before international judging...

  8. #48

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    Isabella was already a successful ballerina in the NYC circuit as a child, so it's not like she came into ice dance as a complete spazz with no performance ability.

  9. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by apatinar View Post
    The real question is out of all the girls out there, how is it that this girl was able to even have the opportunity to perform those programs before international judging...
    The real question is why you're so obsessive about her. But to answer your question: drive, dedication, perseverance, luck, hard work, and yes, the ability to finance a very expensive athletic pursuit. Were you under the illusion that skaters make it to the top (which Tobias didn't, BTW) based on nothing but talent?

  10. #50

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    Money can provide a big advantage in figure skating, but it doesn't automatically provide the desire for an athlete to train/compete, determination to improve, and overall dedication to the sport that's needed on a daily basis to compete at the highest levels.
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  11. #51

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    I dont understand this at all.
    Tobias is not as good as ice dancer as Stagniūnass?
    Why on earth is he skating with her? It is well known that top MALE ice dancers are rare and girls have to "fight" for the fitting partner.
    After the fiasco with his former partner (same situation with citizenship btw) Stagniūnass was on the hunt for new partner and if I remember correctly he tested with Jana Khokhlova. People were stunned that she choose Fedor Andreev - skater with no ice dance experience over a solid Stagniūnass.
    Maybe Stagniūnass is not THAT much better than Tobias. I see great elegance in her moves and presence. Their Rachmaninov free dance gives me chills. That hasn't happened in a while.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylvia View Post
    Money can provide a big advantage in figure skating, but it doesn't automatically provide the desire for an athlete to train/compete, determination to improve, and overall dedication to the sport that's needed on a daily basis to compete at the highest levels.
    This.

    Whilst technically Tobias might be far from the best ice dancer, she is one of the best performers and always gives it 110% in competitions.

    Quote Originally Posted by kosjenka View Post
    I dont understand this at all.
    Tobias is not as good as ice dancer as Stagniūnass?
    Why on earth is he skating with her? It is well known that top MALE ice dancers are rare and girls have to "fight" for the fitting partner.
    She's probably paying his expenses.

  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    I think Papa Boria wouldn't have paired Reed and Rogov up if the citizenship couldn't be sorted.
    Sure he would. Mainly because Reeds are in dahling daughter's group and there aren't that many other skaters there. PapaBoria had to finance the previous partner (Bugrov), while assume he doesn't have to with Reed. The chances making it to the olys are equally nill with the minimum TES, the Euros placement and the Tamar Katz IOC example. Hence Reed might as well go without the citizenship, but the pair is cheaper.

  14. #54
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    Reed/Rogov have made the TES minimums for Euros and the World TES SD TES minimum, coming within a point twice of the FD TES minimum. They have another chance to make the FD minimum at Euros.

    There's no guarantee they'll place high enough at Euros to get Israeli Olympic Committee approval or even qualify for the Olympics, but they've only been together for a minute and a half, and she's very talented.

    I have no idea on what basis the Israeli government would grant her citizenship, though, if all of the other stars fell into alignment.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Reed/Rogov have made the TES minimums for Euros and the World TES SD TES minimum, coming within a point twice of the FD TES minimum. They have another chance to make the FD minimum at Euros.

    There's no guarantee they'll place high enough at Euros to get Israeli Olympic Committee approval or even qualify for the Olympics, but they've only been together for a minute and a half, and she's very talented.

    I have no idea on what basis the Israeli government would grant her citizenship, though, if all of the other stars fell into alignment.
    Well, zemgirl's crack about Eli Yishai tells you it would be very political. (And where wouldn't it be?) Plenty of Russian Israelis are not technically Jewish but are related to someone who qualifies for citizenship. Unless the Japanese are one of the 10 lost tribes, let's assume she would only get citizenship with some political pull, but it's not impossible.
    "Youth and vigor is no match for age and deceit." -- Prancer

  16. #56
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    It's more likely on her father's side of the family, but I'm not sure whether that would be counted, especially by the Eli Yishai's of the world.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  17. #57
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    I assume it helps when you are immigrating from one EU state to another as Vanessa James did-- from GBR (since she was Bermudan through her father) to FRA. Anyone know if that simplified matters for her becoming French?

    Now Tobias I assume is of Lithuanian ancestry. Am I wrong? Why is she too lazy to learn any Lithuanian? She ought to have claimed she was studying it. It seems that Lithuania applies its citizenship law carefully. As an EU member in that part of Europe, it may have little choice.

    They are one of my favorite dance teams because they are sexy.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 01-09-2013 at 04:02 AM.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post

    Now Tobias I assume is of Lithuanian ancestry. Am I wrong? Why is she too lazy to learn any Lithuanian? She ought to have claimed she was studying it for heaven sake!
    In a recent article about them, it stated that Isabella was studying the language three times a week. She spoke it in an interview in Lithuania.
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  19. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by TanithandBenFan View Post
    In a recent article about them, it stated that Isabella was studying the language three times a week. She spoke it in an interview in Lithuania.
    Here's the article (in Lithuanian): http://www.alfa.lt/straipsnis/150715...2-12-19_07-00/
    "Randy [Starkman (1960-April 16, 2012)] lived by the same motto as the rest of us. The Olympics isn’t every four years, it’s every single day. He just got it." --Canadian Olympic kayaker Adam van Koeverden

  20. #60
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    Sorry state. The "judging" community obviously does not need to meet anywhere near to this kind of international/citizenship scrutiny, as an unspoken percentage of judges who "represent" countries other than "Russia" can sit in front of judging computers to choose our Olympic and World champions. But athletes seem to have to meet a higher bar to represent. The lines are blurred and grey.

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