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  1. #101

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanette View Post
    "Spark" doesn't count? Once upon a time it did.
    I personally prefer to see skaters show spark a la Chase Michael Michaels style.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Well that would be me that said that and whilst you may have seen it one way, I saw it a different way. The program technically was brilliant - fantastic jumps. But choreographically was not the same standard. There was some working with the phrasing of the music but it lacked refinement in the moves or connection to the music. And I was not getting much emotion being put out there. There was not much variety in the types of moves or gestures presented by the skater. From my judging eye, it did appear juniorish. However she has only performed it twice in competition. Programs do take time to develop and have to be worked in. Skaters sometimes have to learn to connect to the music and find their way through it. At worlds it may be on a totally different level.
    Totally agree. The jumps were sublime. The rest of it............really felt soul-less. Don't know if it was the choreography, the particular music version, or her head just not in the game. I kept waiting for something "big" to happen.........a definitive movement to that amazing music......like the buildup to a MK spiral........or passion....the buildup you should have in a skate......think V/M telling a story. They are not just doing moves and tricks.

    Anyway, I am sure it will be better at worlds.
    DH - and that's just my opinion

  3. #103

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtherlore View Post
    I agree with most of what you said. But propagandizing in favor of Yu-Na? In what sense? By stating that she has such and such good qualities/achievements, or by denying the very existence of her short-comings? I haven’t seen much of the latter by her fans in this forum.
    Then you must not be reading very carefully.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  4. #104

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loves_Shizuka View Post
    Yu-Na threads NEVER disappoint.

  5. #105

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    I personally prefer to see skaters show spark a la Chase Michael Michaels style.
    "Why do I skate? Why does the king panther hunt the gazelle? To live."
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  6. #106
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    Be that as it may, we haven't seen anything that comes close to this lady's skating in quite a while--certainly not in this present Women's Olympic Cycle. Glorious skating, indeed, despite a plethora of online pseudo experts' feeble, ill-conceived pickings as to the "lack of emotion or skimpiness of detail" in this performance. (How dare, in this season where one hardly afforded to exhale during some of the recent Grand Prix events out of fear of mass implosion.) Indeed Miss Kim brings a refreshing breath of new life to our current skating world. Brava!!

  7. #107

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanatic View Post
    I really wish she'd have stuck with Giselle and Homage this year. Giselle wasn't spectacular but I think it's much better than Vampire. But Homage was such a unique and personal program. The music edit was wonderful IMO. The whole program was well pieced together in a way that it felt like a ride; there were highs and lows, lighter parts and parts that were pensive and thoughtful. I really feel like Homage had the potential to be a masterpiece if she'd have gotten more mileage out of it. Comparing it to Les Mis...there is no comparison. Homage is leaps and bounds/light years better IMO.

    *sigh* I really wanted to see her compete with those programs again...
    I doubt it will happen, but I would love for Yu-Na to restore Homage for the Olympics. It had such potential, and it's unfortunate that such an interesting program got shelved after only one outing.
    Check out my figure skating blog out at:
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  8. #108

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeedward View Post
    Glorious skating, indeed, despite a plethora of online pseudo experts' feeble, ill-conceived pickings as to the "lack of emotion or skimpiness of detail" in this performance.
    Um, at least one of the posters in this thread is a skating judge.

    And I'm not sure what makes your online-pseudo-expert opinion any more valid than any other online-pseudo-expert's opinion.
    You should never write words with numbers. Unless you're seven. Or your name is Prince. - "Weird Al" Yankovic, "Word Crimes"

  9. #109

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeedward View Post
    ... despite a plethora of online pseudo experts' feeble, ill-conceived pickings as to the "lack of emotion or skimpiness of detail" in this performance.
    If you don't value the opinion of the overwhelming majority of people on this board, why come here?

    This board is known for having some of the most informed fans plus some present and former judges, skating officials, and skaters.

    Also, I don't think just being better than the field is something that a skater at the level of Yu Na or Patrick Chan should strive for, which is why I point out things that could be better, and many others here feel the same. These two are so close to pushing the sport, but neither have produced the equivalent of Dick Button's 2A or 3Lp. Nobody has done it before is very different than nobody has done it better.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-08-2013 at 05:02 AM.

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by LKR View Post
    I doubt it will happen, but I would love for Yu-Na to restore Homage for the Olympics. It had such potential, and it's unfortunate that such an interesting program got shelved after only one outing.
    Agreed that Homage was a special piece that had all the signs of blossoming into a masterpiece. If I could ask Yuna to perform one program only, I would ask her to perform Homage.

    But Les Mis is certainly a not too shabby of a program on its own - I love the music edits, and its signature moments alone - the halfway point sequence starting with "On my own" leading up to Yuna's second lutz, make this program one of my favorite Yuna programs.

  11. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    If you don't value the opinion of the overwhelming majority of people on this board, why come here?

    This board is known for having some of the most informed fans plus some present and former judges, skating officials, and skaters.

    Also, I don't think just being better than the field is something that a skater at the level of Yu Na or Patrick Chan should strive for, which is why I point out things that could be better, and many others here feel the same. These two are so close to pushing the sport, but neither have produced the equivalent of Dick Button's 2A or 3Lp. Nobody has done it before is very different than nobody has done it better.
    I absolutely echoe the bolded part, that's why I see some really valid points among these criticisms. But I do think both Yuna and Patrick have pushed this sport to the better place when they are around showcasing their very best talents.
    Last edited by l'etoile; 01-08-2013 at 06:04 AM.

  12. #112

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    ^ I think that is reasonable, l'etoile. They both certainly revitalized that underappreciated part of the sport, the part where the blades are in contact with the ice.

  13. #113
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    I think the key difference is that Chan keeps pushing himself to improve his artistry and become an even better skater than he was last season. I don't see that with Yu Na. Of course, Patrick does not have an OGM.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeedward View Post
    Be that as it may, we haven't seen anything that comes close to this lady's skating in quite a while--certainly not in this present Women's Olympic Cycle. Glorious skating, indeed, despite a plethora of online pseudo experts' feeble, ill-conceived pickings as to the "lack of emotion or skimpiness of detail" in this performance. (How dare, in this season where one hardly afforded to exhale during some of the recent Grand Prix events out of fear of mass implosion.) Indeed Miss Kim brings a refreshing breath of new life to our current skating world. Brava!!
    Well said. My sentiments exactly.


    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    If you don't value the opinion of the overwhelming majority of people on this board, why come here?

    This board is known for having some of the most informed fans plus some present and former judges, skating officials, and skaters.

    Also, I don't think just being better than the field is something that a skater at the level of Yu Na or Patrick Chan should strive for, which is why I point out things that could be better, and many others here feel the same. These two are so close to pushing the sport, but neither have produced the equivalent of Dick Button's 2A or 3Lp. Nobody has done it before is very different than nobody has done it better.
    LOL. What "overwhelming majority" are you talking about? Aside from nitpicks by a few armchair critics here, the general consensus is that overall, this was a great skating performance. If you don't see that, maybe you are following a wrong sport?

    As for your "critique" about how a skater should not just be better than everyone else, but do things that nobody has done before, well, that is either (1) a supreme compliment and recognition of the skater's talent or (2) your agenda is to nitpick and criticize when there is really not much to criticize. In goodwill, I will take it as the former.

  15. #115

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaia View Post
    As for your "critique" about how a skater should not just be better than everyone else, but do things that nobody has done before, well, that is either (1) a supreme compliment and recognition of the skater's talent or (2) your agenda to nitpick and criticize when there is really not much to criticize. In goodwill, I will take it as the former.
    Things are not always black and white, you know. IMO bardtoob was suggesting a great point in general, and (almost) everyone has their own beliefs and bases on their criticisms which were also given in their posts. Of course, except some comments intended to be just plain evil or snide which I have not yet seen many(or any) in this thread.

  16. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaia View Post
    LOL. What "overwhelming majority" are you talking about? Aside from nitpicks by a few armchair critics here, the general consensus is that overall, this was a great skating performance. If you don't see that, maybe you are following a wrong sport?

    As for your "critique" about how a skater should not just be better than everyone else, but do things that nobody has done before, well, that is either (1) a supreme compliment and recognition of the skater's talent or (2) your agenda is to nitpick and criticize when there is really not much to criticize. In goodwill, I will take it as the former.
    I don't suppose you read the post where I said it was the best performance of the season

    The overwhelming majority on this board are armchair critic pseudo experts, including myself. Most people have this level of involvement with respects to professional sports, and they are very important because THEY PAY FOR THE SPORT. They are called fans, which is short for fanatics. They are the type of people that call into football and baseball talk show radio and post on figure skating boards. They can identify sacks, ground roll doubles, and rocker entry 3As because they are interested enough to learn for their own enjoyment.

    And, of course, I was complimenting Yu Na's talent by suggesting that she should be doing extraordinary things with her talent rather than just doing things that come easy to her. No one ever knows what their true ability is until it is pushed to the point that failure is a possibility.

    ETA: I have to wonder what some people think "forum" means, and what they consider their relationship to others is within a forum.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-08-2013 at 07:58 AM.

  17. #117

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leeedward View Post
    Be that as it may, we haven't seen anything that comes close to this lady's skating in quite a while--certainly not in this present Women's Olympic Cycle. Glorious skating, indeed, despite a plethora of online pseudo experts' feeble, ill-conceived pickings as to the "lack of emotion or skimpiness of detail" in this performance. (How dare, in this season where one hardly afforded to exhale during some of the recent Grand Prix events out of fear of mass implosion.) Indeed Miss Kim brings a refreshing breath of new life to our current skating world. Brava!!
    As overedge pointed out, at least one poster here is a judge, which makes her an expert to a certain degree. But while I disagree that her (and other) arguments are feeble and ill-conceived, I do agree that this performance is amongst the best we've seen for quite some time - though in technical terms.

    If Yuna skates such a technically flawless program at Worlds, she could well win it. Kostner would have a chance of beating her, but I'm not sure anyone else will. Mao perhaps, if she successfully brings back the 3A and skates clean. But that's not something I'd putting money on.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by LKR View Post
    I doubt it will happen, but I would love for Yu-Na to restore Homage for the Olympics.
    I agree. It was something quite new in single skating, even though Lu Chen's 1995 great FS set to "The last emperor" comes close. Given her love for Korea and her constant will to show gratitude to her Korean fans, I wonder if Yuna is considering re-using that at the Olympics.

    Btw, if you notice, this year Yuna and David followed a similar pattern in conceiving the SP and the FS. This year (fantastic) SP is about the states of mind of a girl bitten by a vampire, who undergo quite a transformation, from human to non-human. She loses all the traits of humanity and acquires those of a vampire. she doesn't only change her eating habits, so to speak. She actually undergoes a change in her soul, or better saying in her whole being. She is now a dangerous creature who threatens her former fellows (humans) of being "kissed" by her (we can't deny that biting necks and sucking blood out has a poweful erothic fascination... as the success of "Twilight" testify ). This program is about a Re-birth, as os168 pointed out here or elsewhere. And I personally rave on such concept and theatrical realization. David not only saw the hidden sensuality of this b-movie piano tunes, but also emphasizes the ecstatic feelings of acquiring more and more power, in subjugating men erothically, in commanding over life and death. It's great.
    The Giselle SP, in the same way, deals with the mental states of a girl who gets transformed into a ghost, but this tranformation is a much more tragic one because she loses her loved one but keeps her human feelings and memories (i.e., she will regret the loss for the rest of her non-human life, or better saying, living death). There is a gothic nuance in both programs, something I would love to see in figure skating more often.
    Anyway, my point is that both SP's are about the individual, while both FS's deal with the collective (and have a similar structure).

    And, if I may add my 2 cents to the "heated" debate over armchair fans, I believe the general problem in discussing skaters is that some fans always expect them to be perfect, which means, bringing the jumps, showing beautiful lines and moving the fans emotionally. Well, before scrutinize these poor athletes and find their "shortcomings", why don't you go out there on the ice, fullfill all that you ask them and then expect the same from them?

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    As overedge pointed out, at least one poster here is a judge, which makes her an expert to a certain degree. But while I disagree that her (and other) arguments are feeble and ill-conceived, I do agree that this performance is amongst the best we've seen for quite some time - though in technical terms.
    Good! Then I assume he/she would be keen on understanding and acknowledging the strengths of the skaters too and at the least balanced in his/her opinion. Otherwise I don’t give a hoot if he/she’s an expert, a judge, or a teacher of judges.

  20. #120
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    Why don't we all take a step back from this heated debate and enjoy it again? Here's the best fancam I've seen of the performance: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...dFVyyK4#t=135s

    There's something about this camera's angle that makes Yuna's skating so lovely to behold.

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