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  1. #181

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    I have seen Yuna live at Worlds 2009. Didn't feel a thing. But I did wave a small Korean flag handed to me by her fans.
    That's okay. She is not for everyone. I don't think anyone felt anything either when you admit this. Nice of you to wave the small Korean flag though

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Yeah but have you see Yuna live? I have and even next to Michelle. Actually just like your experience with Michelle, according to some fancams I can see some Korean audience are all visibly shaken and teared up, some even burst out crying at the end of the performance, does remind you of Michelle at US Nationals?

    Seriously... i mean just look at all these photographic evidence. Are these not emotional projection enough? What does she have to do?
    It's nothing that Yu-Na's doing wrong. She doesn't need to display her face or slow down so people can see.

    Obviously with people cheering and crying, she's doing what she needs to do. She's connecting with people; but if that connection isn't there, it's just not there. For me, I don't connect with Yu-Na emotionally when she skates. I can see the emotion on her face so I know she's emoting while she's skating. I just don't feel it and that has nothing to do with her.

    I'm sure the same applies for other people when you talk about Michelle. Michelle has moved me to tears on a number of occasions b/c I was emotionally invested in her as a skater. She's the only skater I've ever been that invested in b/c she's the only skater I literally grew up watching for 10 years of my life. A lot of her fans feel that way b/c we watched her for so long and experienced all of the things she went through, good and bad. We're fans, we love her, we feel like we know her. When she'd skate, we could feel her emotions and her heart. If you don't have that connection to Michelle then you probably don't get why fans gush so much about her...it's probably pretty annoying to you. I know I don't get all of the gushing about Yu-Na's new programs this year. Honestly, I'm a little disappointed in them...but I completely understand why others feel differently. A lot of people don't get what was so special about Michelle's Tosca or Aranjuez...Michelle's fans do though

    As for Yu-Na, I've watched her grow and mature through the years and I am in awe of the amazing skater and woman she's become. However, I don't find myself to be emotionally invested in her. I love her skating, I cheer for her, I want her to do well...but unlike with Michelle, if Yu-Na doesn't win my world doesn't come to a stop. That was the case with Michelle. I'd get so nervous whenever she'd skate and the outcome of her competitions usually dictated how the rest of my day would be (I've been like that with basketball too; it's a drawback of being a fan). It's not like that for me with Yu-Na or any of the other skaters I follow now (Mao, Ashley, Akiko, Carolina, Mirai, Adelina and several others). As much as I love all of these skaters, I'm not emotionally invested in any of them which is great for me b/c it allows me to just watch skating. One of the skaters I'm cheering for usually wins so in the end I'm happy either way.

    So if people don't feel the emotion from Yu-Na it's not her fault and there's nothing she can do to fix that. Not everyone is going to feel the same way about every skater...

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post

    .....Patrick, by contrast..........is still continuing to grow as a skater.
    Well, Chan is certainly growing artistically, but this season has not been his most stellar, results-wise. With the wrap-up of last season, he was considered a shoo-in to become the next Olympic Men's gold medalist. However, clouds are creeping in with the culmination of this Grand Prix season. Notwithstanding, he's still a shoo-in for Canadian Nationals, but World's is not so certain. Will be interesting! With the possibility of Carolina & Kim returning to the World scene in the ladies' competition, the intrigue is even more complex! What a treat for skating fans.

  4. #184

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtherlore View Post
    Sorry if I offended you. But I meant it. I have some doubt if she's from down under and non-Asian as her nickname suggests. Hope I'm wrong, but the pattern and repetition seem so typical.
    Okay now I am really pissed off. You are such a deluded idiot that you don't think I am from Australia? Just because I might say anything slightly negative about Yu Na which YOU don't agree with? What makes you so superior that you think you can insult people and accuse them of not being from a county they say they are?

    I live in a suburb called Carrum Downs, I work in a suburb called Bentleigh East and I skate at a rink called the Icehouse in Docklands which is in the Melbourne CBD. Do a google search on all those things and then provide me an apology you freakin moron!!!!!

    In fact to suggest that someone is Asian because they take a stand point that you disagree with is stereotyping and has racist connotations.

    In the meantime I am going to put you on the ignore list because it is just not worth reading your shit!!!

    BTW - for those with the popcorn, I hope you have been suitably entertained
    Last edited by Aussie Willy; 01-09-2013 at 11:12 PM.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  5. #185
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    Is it me or does almost every other thread on this message board switch to a discussion about Kwan or Chan sooner or later?

    I've just watched Yuna's free skate from the Korean Championships and I have to say I am deeply impressed with her level of skating, she is still the lady to beat IMO and if she skates at the next Worlds like she has at these recent Nationals, I would dare to predict she will get the highest technical score as well as highest components scores of all ladies out there whether the judges will feel something while watching her or not.

  6. #186
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    ^^JERRY! JERRY! JERRY!

  7. #187

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    Quote Originally Posted by martyross View Post
    So in the end we must conclude that this unique, and in some way interesting conflict between art and competition has no solution, except in rare cases. Figure skating is not the place in wich search art, because the competitive side will always prevail for one reason or an other. I also think, actually, that the nature of art is not competitive. The competitive spirit comes out once again when we enjoy making comparisions between paintings, pieces of music, etc, to decide which one is the best. This seems to be a human obsession. (: But we never see a “painting competition” in TV, because we think that competition is not the true realm of art. There are music competition, like Euromusic, but they are very rare. so, if art is beyond competition, why do we expect to see art in figure skating? (: that’s a logical error, it seems.
    We want both sides of the thing, but it’s wanting too much and we end up obtaining little ((
    Martyross, your long post nearly me except the last paragraph.
    Agree. There is unlikely any concrete solution to arguments on art and sports. Art is highly subjective and creativity is the key word. Sport is acquiring a set of skills and pitting these skills against others in competitions. We can all argue till kingdom come in skating forums and in all honesty, no end to who is right or wrong.

    Peace to all ....
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  8. #188

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    Having freshly rewatched the one skating performance that made me which I saw live (Shen/Zhao Nutcracker FS at GPF posted on another thread), I certainly agree that close-ups of the face are not key. I never saw their faces in close-up. But they created such an energy, two people skating as one unit, with such unparalleled understanding of each musical nuance that I never needed to. I think this is my #1 favorite performance of all time. *sniff*
    Yup. I cried at Savchenko/Szolkowy's "Schindler's List" at LA Worlds, and I was far away. And though "Shindler's List" is emotional music, it was not that. It was " They are so beautifully harmonious in every movement". And even Robin's falling on his a++ did not kill it. Skating is expressed in gestures to music, in having an overall idea and in attention to detail. One can choose to be a character, a different version of a character or one can choose to interpret music abstractly.
    Last edited by dinakt; 01-10-2013 at 01:30 AM.
    improving my ballad- like lines

  9. #189
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    Aussie Willy

  10. #190

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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post

    How for example would you mark a program of let's say John Cage's 4'33? Which I'd love Daisuke or even Patrick do. Are the judges capable of seeing musicality in movement without the music and being entirely objective? Perhaps a more valid question might be whether someone else is capable of perform this choreography better than Yuna? Or how about if she is capable of perform other people's program better?
    Please. What does that even mean, why do you throw John Cage out there. What you suggest would simply mean skating with no music. Throwing John Cage's name on top of it would not be in competition rules, and not appropriate for a sport. I like Yu-Na's program, but it's not like she interpreted a late Beethoven Sonata! Les Mis is neither rocket science, nor conceptual avantgarde ( I like it and know every word by heart, but please let's not make it an inaccessible masterpiece understood by a select few)
    improving my ballad- like lines

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    I have seen Yuna live at Worlds 2009. Didn't feel a thing. But I did wave a small Korean flag handed to me by her fans.
    So, you were one of the minorities who didn't feel.

  12. #192
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    Aussie Willy, please calm down. Sorry I pissed you off.

    I’ve been below equator just once, to Bali, Indonesia. I want to visit Melbourne, Tasmania and New Zealand, some other time.

    It was fun reading your posts. But for the concerted effort, I really hate buddy groups doing that in any on-line public forum, for several reasons.

    On the Asian remark, you misunderstood me.

  13. #193

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    Quote Originally Posted by lakewood View Post
    So, you were one of the minorities who didn't feel.
    Yeah, well IceAlisa did not feel it when watching Michelle Kwan either . . . as a result, we had a good time of it . . . Ah, the good old days . . . I had so many red blobs

  14. #194
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    There are a few programs of Kwan's that I really liked. And while I wasn't a fan of MK, I vastly prefer her over Yuna. As a skater, she always looked elegant on the ice.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

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  15. #195

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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post
    Yeah but have you see Yuna live? I have and even next to Michelle. Actually just like your experience with Michelle, according to some fancams I can see some Korean audience are all visibly shaken and teared up, some even burst out crying at the end of the performance, does remind you of Michelle at US Nationals?

    Actually, I think i figured out what what is the problem might be here.

    Yuna is too darn fast in her choreography. It is like she is clearly projecting on all the photographs taken during the performance, but yet somehow this didn't give the youtube audience enough time to intake her projection due to the jam packed choreography. It is like Zooooom... its gone.

    Seriously... i mean just look at all these photographic evidence. Are these not emotional projection enough? What does she have to do?

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/queenyuna/page7/

    Her biggest problem maybe she need to cut down half of the choreography, skate at 50% speed so she can conform to the standard lady speed, and give the youtube audiences a bit the time to absorb her 'emotional projection' at a pace they are used to and comfortable.

    Ideally make a point to pause in front of the camera and judging panel, include a new poseography sequence while she bawls her eyes out. It is time to train wet eyetography Yuna. Excercise your tear duct muscles....give them what they want
    I wasn't comparing Kwan to Yu Na. I was making absolutely no remark about Yu Na's skating in my post. I was simply asking the poster if they had ever seen Kwan skate live because it was definitely not all about camera work, those same feelings came across to everyone in the arena. That is all.
    -Brian
    "Michelle would never be caught with sausage grease staining her Vera Wang." - rfisher

  16. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowtherlore View Post
    Aussie Willy, please calm down. Sorry I pissed you off.

    It was fun reading your posts. But for the concerted effort, I really hate buddy groups doing that in any on-line public forum, for several reasons.

    On the Asian remark, you misunderstood me.
    There is no misunderstanding - to quote you -
    I have some doubt if she's from down under and non-Asian as her nickname suggests. Hope I'm wrong, but the pattern and repetition seem so typical.
    Why mention Non-Asian if you were not suggesting I were? And what do you mean by being part of a buddy group? And to be so rude about someone does not suggest that it is fun reading my posts.

    Well you were incredibly wrong but because I am gracious I appreciate that you have apologised and I will accept it. But you really should think before you write something like that again about anyone on this forum.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  17. #197
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    I have never connected or been moved by Yu-na until this performance. She was a revelation to me. Her performance is a finely nuanced one with delicate subtlety. For me, it is the most exciting and moving performance I have seen from a male or female since Michelle left competition. The sheer beauty of it. A few of the hand movements seemed more mechanic than felt, but when a skater knows a difficult jump is coming up I would expect these kinds of occasional lapses.

    Does anyone think she might have peaked and too soon? I remember when Michelle skated Arianne (spelling) for the first time, at the world pro competition. She was absolutely brilliant and flawless. This was the program she did the Charlotte at the beginning. She never was able to skate the program that way again, not at nationals nor at worlds, albeit she was not feeling her best at worlds due to flu or cold.

  18. #198
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigB08822 View Post
    I wasn't comparing Kwan to Yu Na. I was making absolutely no remark about Yu Na's skating in my post. I was simply asking the poster if they had ever seen Kwan skate live because it was definitely not all about camera work, those same feelings came across to everyone in the arena. That is all.
    Michelle is my favorite skater of all time but, really, saying "those same feelings came across to everyone in the arena" is not likely to be accurate. Personally, I appreciated her lots more on tv than live.

  19. #199
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceAlisa View Post
    There are a few programs of Kwan's that I really liked. And while I wasn't a fan of MK, I vastly prefer her over Yuna. As a skater, she always looked elegant on the ice.
    Fine. I think we all now know that everyone feels differently, and everyone on this forum knows that you don't like YuNa. Then, what is the point of your putting down YuNa so repeatedly, always the same story. That proves nothing except that you hate YuNa, which everybody already knows.

  20. #200

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    Quote Originally Posted by lakewood View Post
    Fine. I think we all now know that everyone feels differently, and everyone on this forum knows that you don't like YuNa. Then, what is the point of your putting down YuNa so repeatedly, always the same story. That proves nothing except that you hate YuNa, which everybody already knows.
    I had a look at IceAlisa's posts and all I can see is that she is just not a fan of Yu Na. Just basically said Yu Na does nothing for her. Totally acceaptable to say that. But at no time is she putting her down, espousing hate nore being incredibly negative. It is just about personal preference. But the fact you are interpreting that way indicates that I think you are being particularly sensitive.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

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