View Poll Results: Which ladies singles skater has performed the best triple axel in competition so far?

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  • Midori Ito

    93 62.00%
  • Tonya Harding

    36 24.00%
  • Ludmila Nelidina

    0 0%
  • Yukari Nakano

    0 0%
  • Kimmie Meissner

    2 1.33%
  • Mao Asada

    19 12.67%
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  1. #41
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    I guess Midori's 3x should be considered of the best overall quality. However, I voted for Tonya because something about Tonya's explosiveness was exciting to me. Her 3x seemed to have more power to it.

  2. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post

    Kimmie had by far the worst and ugliest triple axel I ever saw done btw. I would go with Miki Ando`s easily rotated but narrowly missed on the landing triple axels over Kimmie`s stood up by URed one which shouldnt have even counted.
    Yeah who was the referee at that Nationals for ladies? She/he must have a sense of humor. It was certainly a joke.

    I think officials/USFSA/ABC knew it might be the only time she ever landed it, so the opportunity was then or never to give her that publicity boost.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    The problem with the Sawada 3A is, which competition(s) were they landed in? There not specified anywhere. There are no videos, no competition reports, and no other evidence. There is nothing to go on, no verification. If anybody has any further info, please post.

    It would appear that she did not land any 3A's from 2004 onwards (i.e. the age of 15 onwards) and there is a reference in the article you provided a link to of consistency problems. Moreover, the same article refers to 1 clean triple axel in a "national competition" as opposed to multiple clean triple axels. My best guesstimate as to which "national competition" - the Japanese Junior Nationals which took place in November 2003, in which she finished 3rd. These were the only Nationals she participated in prior to the said article. However, I have not been able to find any confirmation that she landed a triple axel in that competition. Hence, its something of a mystery.
    Consistency, shmonsistency.

    When did Meissner or Nelidina ever have a consistent triple axel?

    My knowledge of (1) Japanese and (2) Japanese ice skating isn't good enough for me to do much investigating, but her ISU profile says, "Sawada has landed triple Axels in national competitions." Apparently, she did it more than once.

    Here is a link to her English-language Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aki_Sawada.

    She competed at Japan Juniors in the 2001-02 and 2002-03 seasons as well as in 2003-04 and twice thereafter. She also competed at Japan Novices in 2000-01 and 2001-02. Presumably, she also competed at some level in Regionals and/or Sectionals prior to October 2004, so there are several competitions at which she might have landed a triple axel. Unfortunately, this was all before the Japanese Federation adopted CoP, so any protocols from those events are not going to be of much use.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    What? You expect me to believe that Joanne Carter landed a triple axel?
    Yes, she was landing them in practice at nationals in 1997. Joanne was also landing 3loop/3loop combinations in practice there as well. Such a shame a knee injury in early 1999 put her out of sorts until 2005.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vagabond View Post
    Consistency, shmonsistency.

    When did Meissner or Nelidina ever have a consistent triple axel?

    My knowledge of (1) Japanese and (2) Japanese ice skating isn't good enough for me to do much investigating, but her ISU profile says, "Sawada has landed triple Axels in national competitions." Apparently, she did it more than once.

    Here is a link to her English-language Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aki_Sawada.

    She competed at Japan Juniors in the 2001-02 and 2002-03 seasons as well as in 2003-04 and twice thereafter. She also competed at Japan Novices in 2000-01 and 2001-02. Presumably, she also competed at some level in Regionals and/or Sectionals prior to October 2004, so there are several competitions at which she might have landed a triple axel. Unfortunately, this was all before the Japanese Federation adopted CoP, so any protocols from those events are not going to be of much use.
    Exactly, it remains a mystery. Hopefully, somebody at some point will be able to specify the competition(s) and post some links to some articles/reports on them.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maofan7 View Post
    Came across this video this afternoon, which is a compilation of triple axels performed by ladies singles skaters up to 2009. Quite a few ladies skaters have attempted triple axels in practice, but so far only 6 have landed them in competition since Midori Ito first did so in 1988.

    So, which ladies singles skater has performed the best triple axel in competition?

    As the above video only goes up to 2009, here are Mao Asada's SP & FS from the 2010 Olympics in which she became the first ladies skater to perform three 3A's in the same competition:-

    Short Program, Free Skate

    Lol I see the comment I posted 3 yrs. ago on youtube concerning the aforementioned triple axel video received too many negatives, thus it was marked as spam. *boohoo*

    Anyhow re-posting my original comment in its entirety here. And that's all I have to say about that.



    I've been watching this sport since the 70's and IMHO the best I have ever seen are:

    (1) TONYA HARDING - perfect, no leg wrap, phenomenal height & distance, no pre/under rotation issues ever.

    (2) MIDORI ITO - except for the leg wrap, she ties Tonya Harding. These two are the true class of the field, no one touches their power, height, full revolutions.

    (3) MAO ASADA - she's not in the class of the two aforementioned, but she's the closest I've ever seen. She never plays it safe!

  7. #47

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    Quote Originally Posted by screech View Post
    Wasn't Joannie Rochette working on the 3A at some point? I could imagine her having a good one (in practice).
    I saw her attempting and falling on some in practice at 2003 Worlds.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    I don't see why Peggy Fleming would be motivated to exaggerate Maria's abilities.
    I was in Edmonton, and Maria was picture perfect. Her 3axels were quite amazing, so good I can't believe she didn't go for it. As easy as a double. That Slute got the bronze was a travesty. Maria was winning the practices, even with Michelle and Lu. Her not placing and having that mess of a Broadway bastardization win the bronze is just so wrong.

    Tonya Harding was way off the circle and had the most crooked axel. Even with her speed and power, it was always off center. She landed it, but it was pretty ugly.

    I will take a leap, and say that Yukari Nakano was way underappreciated. Her axel got around, and she is probably one of the loveliest skaters to ever compete. Was it 2008 where she was just robbed? Everyone in the building knew she won. I prefer Yukari's axel to Mao's. Yukari was not just a strikingly beautiful woman, her skating was striking. I will never understand 2008.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeSwUNLqFkE

    "A champion's performance". And she didn't even medal. My hate for Kostner and her mumbling and stumbling started here.
    Last edited by Alex Forrest; 01-07-2013 at 04:31 AM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIronLady View Post
    Yeah who was the referee at that Nationals for ladies? She/he must have a sense of humor. It was certainly a joke.

    I think officials/USFSA/ABC knew it might be the only time she ever landed it, so the opportunity was then or never to give her that publicity boost.
    Agreed on all of that.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    I will take a leap, and say that Yukari Nakano was way underappreciated. Her axel got around, and she is probably one of the loveliest skaters to ever compete. Was it 2008 where she was just robbed? Everyone in the building knew she won. I prefer Yukari's axel to Mao's.
    She skated with a beautiful spirit, and I feel sad for anyone who missed out on her beauty and her spins just because of her wrap on the lutz and flip. She had a good 3A (without much leg wrap).

    Yukari gets little publicity save for the fact that she's one of the five ladies in the triple axel club. She was robbed by her federation in both 2006 and 2010. She was so obviously the third qualifier for Japan's Olympic contingent in 2006, but the Japan Federation made a nonsense decision that revealed how ashamed they were about sending Miki Ando. They sent Miki to Olympics (as she was their #1 star), and for no official reason (as far as I know) Yukari was elected to Worlds. They did not have to explain why since everyone thought it was because Miki was undeserving of an Olympic assignment and only chosen to satisfy the expectations of sponsors.

    The situation was likewise lamentable in 2010. I think Akiko demonstrated she deserved the Olympic spot. While Miki finished higher than Akiko (somehow), Miki probably should have been left home in favor of Yukari. Miki proved unnecessary and dispensible at both Olympics and Worlds. She couldn't even beat Laura Lepisto at Worlds, probably because nobody liked that drag-inspired Cleopatra mess. So I have no problem declaring that Yukari should have been chosen for 2010 instead of Miki. Shafting or appearing to shaft Nakano twice is not something the JSF should be allowed to live down.

    The federation, and one could start a blog with complaints about them, still does batty things. However, today they seem to understand IJS and the Japanese skaters' potential.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 01-07-2013 at 08:10 AM.

  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by essence_of_soy View Post
    A friend of mine and I saw Maria land triple axels in practice at the 1996 World Championships in Edmonton. They covered amazing distance, too.
    Maria said in interviews circa 1999 that her triple axels always landed on her posterior. She was a strong woman, but it's hard to believe she was close in 1996. Then again, it is hard to believe she was still pulling off all the jumps she did in Vancouver in 2001.
    Last edited by TheIronLady; 01-07-2013 at 08:05 AM.

  12. #52

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    Does Yukari's axel look consistently pre-rotated?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...zVYt9R6as&NR=1

    I used to think she fully rotated the jump back in 05-06, but looking back on it now I have no idea.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by NadineWhite View Post
    Lol I see the comment I posted 3 yrs. ago on youtube concerning the aforementioned triple axel video received too many negatives, thus it was marked as spam. *boohoo*

    Anyhow re-posting my original comment in its entirety here. And that's all I have to say about that.



    I've been watching this sport since the 70's and IMHO the best I have ever seen are:

    (1) TONYA HARDING - perfect, no leg wrap, phenomenal height & distance, no pre/under rotation issues ever.

    (2) MIDORI ITO - except for the leg wrap, she ties Tonya Harding. These two are the true class of the field, no one touches their power, height, full revolutions.

    (3) MAO ASADA - she's not in the class of the two aforementioned, but she's the closest I've ever seen. She never plays it safe!
    Someone characterized the above as spam? I think it's an excellent analysis. I believe that none other than Kristi Yamaguchi would agree with you re: points one and two. She said in an interview that Tonya's triple axel was even more beautiful than Midori's. And Kristi probably saw a lot of triple axels by both Midori and Tonya in practice.

    As for little ol' non-expert me, I think I give a small edge to Midori, but I'm not sure whether I am being unduly influenced by the facts that 1) she was the first, 2) she landed much more of them in competition than did Tonya and 3) she landed them for a much longer time frame than did Tonya.

    But as far as the quality of the jump, I'm torn and need to watch the videos again. It's kind of like choosing between my 2 favorite desserts: both are so fabulous that one day one is my favorite and the next day the other one is. Midori and Tonya were both amazing!
    Last edited by mikemba; 01-07-2013 at 05:37 PM. Reason: Typos, typos, typos! (i even made a typo typing "typo.")

  14. #54

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    I have seen mention in this thread of "ugly in the air". Is there an actual deduction for this if the jump itself is perfectly taken off, landed, has good speed and height?

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by muffinbiscuit View Post
    I have seen mention in this thread of "ugly in the air". Is there an actual deduction for this if the jump itself is perfectly taken off, landed, has good speed and height?
    I think the air position is part of GOE.

  16. #56
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    For the fans that voted Tonya as having the best 3A ..... you guys don't mind that her Axel was always tilted outside of the circle mid-air and had a wide swinging free leg on the landing? It was only through sheer strength that Tonya was able to not lose the revolutions mid-air and hung onto the landing edge. I'm sure the wildness of Tonya's technique contributed to the excitement and Wow factor of her 3A, but I would never classify it as textbook perfect.

    Midori crossed her free leg at the knee or below the knee on her jumps. I wouldn't classify it as a wrap. Claudia Kristofic-Binder and Erin Pearl had true leg wraps, and their jumps appeared small and the revolutions looked slowed in the air. Midori's crossed legs never caused that issue for her.

    --------


    I think Kimmi had good lift into her 3A. The one landed at Nationals was wonky and arguably under-rotated, but the practice footage showed that Kimmi was able to do very nice completed ones.

    The ugliest 3A would have to be Nakano's. She barely got off the ground throughout the whole jump; Her technique diminished the power of the Axel jump.

  17. #57

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    Quote Originally Posted by muffinbiscuit View Post
    I have seen mention in this thread of "ugly in the air". Is there an actual deduction for this if the jump itself is perfectly taken off, landed, has good speed and height?
    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    I think the air position is part of GOE.
    The way the GOE rules currently work, there's a recommended reduction for "Poor speed, height, distance, air position" of -1 to -2, and positive bullet points (recommended two for each +GOE) include

    3) varied position in the air / delay in rotation
    4) good height and distance
    7) effortless throughout


    So if Ito for example achieves positive bullet points 4 and 7 a judge would start out thinking +1 for the jump and then if they consider the air position poor or ugly they could reduce the GOE back to 0. If she also had additional positive points, then the poor air position could make the difference between +2 vs. +1.

    If the only positive aspect were good height and distance, or there was nothing positive aside from the fact that the jump was executed successfully, and if the air position was not just not-ideal but actively bad (e.g., off axis, uncontrolled), then -1 might be appropriate, assuming no other errors.

    Other little problems, e.g., a small jump with a bad air position or a bad air position resulting from a badly skidded takeoff, might end up with -2.

  18. #58
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    How high does Tonya jump? At this point it looks like her ankles are as high as the boards. Is that just the camera angle? http://youtu.be/29SMYaEwGyM?t=2m20s

  19. #59
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    I have an old VHS tape somewhere that my coach recorded herself years ago... It's Josee Chouinard landing triple axels in practice, they were amazing and clean! I need to go and find it!

  20. #60

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    The quality of Tonya Harding's 3Lz, which I think was the best ever, was always better than the quality of her 3A. The 3A belonged to Midori.

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