The influence of classical music on figure skating

[bardtoob]

Don't worry, soon music with lyrics will be allowed even outside ice dance, and then you will have as many Adele and hip-hop programs as you could possibly want. Or, as is the case in ice dance, many tributes to medleys.

I was thinking about something with more depth and some of the characteristics with which gkelly was referring, like the music from the contemporary Argentine Jazz artist Raul di Blasio, which most people on this thread would know for his piece Otonal.

[Katarzyna]

I was thinking about something with more depth and some of the characteristics with which gkelly was referring, like the music from the contemporary Argentine Jazz artist Raul di Blasio, which most people on this thread would know for his piece Otonal.

Otonal - love it!

Maria Butyrskaja: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n67pXhfRfd0 (WC 1999, LP)
Johnny Weir: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ttNzEwPMLM (US Nats 2005, LP)

[briancoogaert]

Otonal - love it!

Maria Butyrskaja: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n67pXhfRfd0 (WC 1999, LP)
Johnny Weir: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ttNzEwPMLM (US Nats 2005, LP)

I don't know if we can consider Otonal as classical music, but here is the best Otonal (with Maria Butyrskaya 1999 Worlds LP) :
Polina K 2012 Euros LP

[TheresMaude]

I don't know if we can consider Otonal as classical music

IMO it qualifies more as faux classical.

[bardtoob]

I do not think anybody, including Katarzyna, thinks Otonal is classical since Raul di Blasio is considered a contemporary jazz artist, but it does have the qualities that gkelly previously mentioned that make it easy to use in a skating program.

I think this is largely true, and even moreso with early 20th century popular dance music and ice dance.

But specifically, I think that legato classical music (and classical-style soundrack music) has always remained most common for skating because most good skating involves legato movement qualities -- with exceptions always welcome as contrast.

This all came up after I basically said that skating is stuck in 1885, probably because tonal music has high points, low points, and a sense of direct that makes it very accessible to the types of choreography that entertains.

[Katarzyna]

I do not think anybody, including Katarzyna, thinks Otonal is classical since Raul di Blasio is considered a contemporary jazz artist, but it does have the qualities that gkelly previously mentioned that make it easy to use in a skating program.

I’d certainly won’t consider Jazz Classics! Actually that’s music I really dislike (well, tastes are different ). Otonal, however, is simply beautiful, certainly not classic “classics” but for me it has classical beauty.

For the whole discussion what’s classics and what not, I’ll stick with the definition of Wikipedia (though of course wiki cannot be considered high science ), that the common period of classics was between 1550 and 1900, which means that music composed after 1900 fitting the characteristics of classic is not automatically considered as not being classics.

I remember when I was at secondary school in Austria (probably kind of Junior High school compared to U.S.) we had musical education as a subject and we had to learn about classic composers, their lives, their works and so on. – And this included many composers who actually were born / composed after 1900, e.g. Stravinski, Rachmaninov or Karl Orff - Carmina Burana for example was composed in 1937. Here is another clip:

Anissina / Peizerat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsvq-N7xAtc (WC 2000, FD)

This all came up after I basically said that skating is stuck in 1885, probably because tonal music has high points, low points, and a sense of direct that makes it very accessible to the types of choreography that entertains.

In addition many classical pieces change temper, which is also great for creating figure skating programmes (Samson and Delilah or Sailor dance come to my mind!).

I also think that skaters using classics have another big advantage: as the majority of programmes was and is done to classics, it is kind of well accepted practice among the judges. Though I love classics in skating, I actually don’t like that as reasoning for choosing classics, but just look how often even skaters who didn’t always skate to classics stick with it e.g. during a Olympic season.

[Cherub721]

Beethoven's Seventh Symphony
Duschenays

Ravel's Bolero
Vanessa Giunchi
Alexander Abt
Leonova & Khvalko - can't find vid

Gliere Harp Concerto
Lucinda Ruh

Sasha Cohen - Mendelssohn Cello Concerto

Rachmaninoff Piano Concerto (#2 and 3)
Naomi Nari Nam

Mikkeline Kierkegaard - Rondo Capriccioso

Meditation de Thais
Oksana Baiul

Mahler's 5th Symphony
Katia Gordeeva
Virtue & Moir

Sibelius - Valse Triste
Virtue & Moir
Drobiazko & Vanagas, 1999
Drobiazko & Vanagas, 2012
Rahkamo & Kokko

Albinoni's Adagio
Emanuel Sandhu
Grishuk & Platov
Maria Butyrskaya

Rossini - La Pie Voleuse
Surya Bonaly

Verdi's Requiem
Gordeeva & Grinkov

Mozart's Requiem
Denkova & Staviyski

Mussogorsky - Night on Bald Mountain
Alexander Fadeev
Kohklova & Novitsky

Grieg - Peer Gynt
Totmianina & Marinin

Peter Barna - Paganini Violin Concerto

[Katarzyna]

Mussogorsky - Night on Bald Mountain
Alexander Fadeev
Kohklova & Novitsky

Cherub721 – thank you for adding the clips! And I’m particularly thankful for the two above. This programme of Alexander Fadeev - he was the guy who made me fell in love with Russian male skating in 1989 for the first time.

More Valse Triste by Johnny Weir:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=whV9xrqwwSU

More Meditation de Thais by Berezhnaya Sikharulidze:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_VDRBCOslo


I like to add Sailor dance by Gliere (I love this music piece, possibly because I also love Russian Music):

Artem Borodulin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NguravwO0iA (EC 2009, SP)
Viacheslav Zagorodiuk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr-gqGxwQXI (1996 Centennial on Ice, SP)

and my favourite one:
Sasha Abt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8v4qLdIJp0s (CoR 2003, SP)

[bardtoob]

I remember when I was at secondary school in Austria (probably kind of Junior High school compared to U.S.) we had musical education as a subject and we had to learn about classic composers, their lives, their works and so on. – And this included many composers who actually were born / composed after 1900, e.g. Stravinski, Rachmaninov or Karl Orff - Carmina Burana for example was composed in 1937.

Well, that's good to know. It would certainly be a shame if somebody from Austria did not have a decent grasp of Classical music, even as it is formally defined. The last time I was there I vowed I would go to listen more so than sightsee the next time.

... I would still call music of the middle 19th century to the early 20th century that followed common practice "Romantic", possibly qualifying it with "that is, late Classical music", depending on my audience, since the Romantic era is generally well understood as immediately preceding the Modern era in so many disciplines.

[BreakfastClub]

Man, y'all are way overthinking and overanalyzing this. Whoever said classical music is like porn is right. You know it when you hear it. I've never ever heard anyone debate the term "classical music." There is a classical period within the overarching genre of classical music that is epitomized by the music of Haydn, Mozart and early Beethoven , but to parse the definition of classical music over this and argue that Bach nor Brahms can be called classical composers is beyond ridiculous.

This is much more accurate from wikipedia:

The dates of the Classical period in Western music are generally accepted as being between about 1750 and 1820. However, the term classical music is used colloquially to describe a variety of Western musical styles from the ninth century to the present, and especially from the sixteenth or seventeenth to the nineteenth.

Generally, I do consider most 20th century composers to still be in the colloquial "classical music" genre, Schoenberg, Berg, Stavinsky, Hindemith, Ravel, Poulenc, Vaughn Williams... in fact, the 20th century was the great age for American composers: Bernstein, Hanson, Piston, Copeland, Ives, Persichetti. There is absolutely not doubt that I would describe all of these composers as "classical."

(Note that I say the above as someone who was an accomplished classical musician, playing/performing internationally in several top US youth ensembles (orchestras/quintets), studied privately under a member of a Big 5 orchestra for eight years. I decided not to go the conservatory route or make it my career but did minor in music theory and history at an Ivy with a well respected musicology program.)

Edited to add some actual skating content to my post:

Best program representing the Baroque period of classical music, Denkova/Stavski's 2003 OD!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsAhLiGTva8

[lulu]

Beethoven's Seventh Symphony
Duschenays

Ravel's Bolero

Leonova & Khvalko - can't find vid

Thank you so much for the incredible list! Here is the video of L&K's version of Bolero

[shine]

Man, y'all are way overthinking and overanalyzing this. Whoever said classical music is like porn is right. You know it when you hear it. I've never ever heard anyone debate the term "classical music." There is a classical period within the overarching genre of classical music that is epitomized by the music of Haydn, Mozart and early Beethoven , but to parse the definition of classical music over this and argue that Bach nor Brahms can be called classical composers is beyond ridiculous.

This is much more accurate from wikipedia:

The dates of the Classical period in Western music are generally accepted as being between about 1750 and 1820. However, the term classical music is used colloquially to describe a variety of Western musical styles from the ninth century to the present, and especially from the sixteenth or seventeenth to the nineteenth.

Generally, I do consider most 20th century composers to still be in the colloquial "classical music" genre, Schoenberg, Berg, Stavinsky, Hindemith, Ravel, Poulenc, Vaughn Williams... in fact, the 20th century was the great age for American composers: Bernstein, Hanson, Piston, Copeland, Ives, Persichetti. There is absolutely not doubt that I would describe all of these composers as "classical."

(Note that I say the above as someone who was an accomplished classical musician, playing/performing internationally in several top US youth ensembles (orchestras/quintets), studied privately under a member of a Big 5 orchestra for eight years. I decided not to go the conservatory route or make it my career but did minor in music theory and history at an Ivy with a well respected musicology program.)

Good clarification. And the term "classical" music with a lower case "c" is used to refer to the general genre of music, and the "Classical" period is usually denoted with a capital C.

Edited to add some actual skating content to my post:

Best program representing the Baroque period of classical music, Denkova/Stavski's 2003 OD!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsAhLiGTva8

Amen!

[Katarzyna]

Best program representing the Baroque period of classical music, Denkova/Stavski's 2003 OD!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsAhLiGTva8

Yeah!


More Valse Triste by Alissa Czisny:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA158YOWQVE (TEB 2011, LP)


Tchaikovski, Nutcracker:

Shen/Zhao: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHQRfNDX3kI (GPF 2004, LP)
Bechke/Petov: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWaSkMn25Kw (OG 1992, LP)
Sasha Cohen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PddOi_Dmlc (WC 2005, LP)

[Vash01]

Ilia Kulik skating to Grieg's piano concerto in A mnor- one of my favorites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpSOdJOusyE

[paskatefan]

Best program representing the Baroque period of classical music, Denkova/Stavski's 2003 OD!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsAhLiGTva8

A real standout - gorgeous program - we were so lucky to see it in person @ 2003 Worlds.

[Jun Y]

All I'm saying is, if you put Bach and Stravinsky and Verdi into the same genre/category, this genre would be too large and too diverse to be meaningful or insightful for the purpose of grouping and comparing with other genre (e.g., jazz, popular, folk, dance, music theater, modern). It becomes increasingly ambiguous and pointless if we are to put Leonard Bernstein, who did a little of everything, (as well as George Gershwin) into the class of "classical composers".

I am often bemused and disappointed that Bolero is Ravel's most popular, most well-known work. I have by no means heard everything by Ravel, but anything else of his I've heard is more interesting and less boring than Bolero. (There is speculation that the repetitiveness in Bolero was actually an early manifestation of Ravel's dementia. See report on RadioLab.) Figure skating does little to correct this injustice, but there have been some good and interesting programs using Ravel's music that's not Bolero:

1. Amanda Evora & Mark Ladwig 2011-12 free skate to Daphnis et Chloe, choreographed by Jim Peterson. A lovely and difficult program. Unfortunately I cannot find a video on YouTube.

2. So Youn Park (KOR) 2012-13 short program to Pantoum. The program's requirement for interpretation is subtle but in fact quite difficult.

3. Paul Wylie 1992 short program to La Valse. The interpretation is textbook.

4. Yasmin Siraj 2011-2013 short program also to Daphnis et Chloe, choreographed by Jamie Isley. Full of transitions with difficult, precise interpretation.

It seems that Ravel's music puts out a tall challenge for choreography and interpretation, and those who take it on have to be very good at it or the result would be a hot mess.

[aftershocks]

Man, y'all are way overthinking and overanalyzing this. Whoever said classical music is like porn is right. You know it when you hear it. I've never ever heard anyone debate the term "classical music." There is a classical period within the overarching genre of classical music that is epitomized by the music of Haydn, Mozart and early Beethoven , but to parse the definition of classical music over this and argue that Bach nor Brahms can be called classical composers is beyond ridiculous.

This is much more accurate from wikipedia:

The dates of the Classical period in Western music are generally accepted as being between about 1750 and 1820. However, the term classical music is used colloquially to describe a variety of Western musical styles from the ninth century to the present, and especially from the sixteenth or seventeenth to the nineteenth.

Generally, I do consider most 20th century composers to still be in the colloquial "classical music" genre, Schoenberg, Berg, Stavinsky, Hindemith, Ravel, Poulenc, Vaughn Williams... in fact, the 20th century was the great age for American composers: Bernstein, Hanson, Piston, Copeland, Ives, Persichetti. There is absolutely not doubt that I would describe all of these composers as "classical."

(Note that I say the above as someone who was an accomplished classical musician, playing/performing internationally in several top US youth ensembles (orchestras/quintets), studied privately under a member of a Big 5 orchestra for eight years. I decided not to go the conservatory route or make it my career but did minor in music theory and history at an Ivy with a well respected musicology program.)

Edited to add some actual skating content to my post:

Best program representing the Baroque period of classical music, Denkova/Stavski's 2003 OD!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsAhLiGTva8

Thank you! Thank you!

[IceAlisa]

Tchaikovski, Nutcracker:

Shen/Zhao: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHQRfNDX3kI (GPF 2004, LP)

They made me cry in the audience with that skate. They are gods on the ice.

[misskarne]

brb, this thread sent me on a Sasha Abt trip.

[Zemgirl]

I am often bemused and disappointed that Bolero is Ravel's most popular, most well-known work. I have by no means heard everything by Ravel, but anything else of his I've heard is more interesting and less boring than Bolero. (There is speculation that the repetitiveness in Bolero was actually an early manifestation of Ravel's dementia. See report on RadioLab.) Figure skating does little to correct this injustice, but there have been some good and interesting programs using Ravel's music that's not Bolero:

1. Amanda Evora & Mark Ladwig 2011-12 free skate to Daphnis et Chloe, choreographed by Jim Peterson. A lovely and difficult program. Unfortunately I cannot find a video on YouTube.

Here you go.

brb, this thread sent me on a Sasha Abt trip.

That never hurts