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  1. #21

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    The influence of classical music on figure skating is like the lyrics from that song, 1985, by Bowling for Soup when it says "She's still preoccupied with 1985."

    Classical music was pop music when figure skating was born, and it is stuck in that style.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    I was not referring to you. My comment was about the rankings posted in the original post.

    Rachmaninoff is not on that list.
    I totally missed that NYT list. That is a strange and a totally arbitrary one as such lists tend to be.
    "Nature is a damp, inconvenient sort of place where birds and animals wander about uncooked."

    from Speedy Death

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Classical music was pop music when figure skating was born, and it never really moved on to a new style.
    I think this is largely true, and even moreso with early 20th century popular dance music and ice dance.

    But specifically, I think that legato classical music (and classical-style soundrack music) has always remained most common for skating because most good skating involves legato movement qualities -- with exceptions always welcome as contrast.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katarzyna View Post
    Remember watching this at the Olympics in '92 as if it had been yesterday!

    This was the first one which came into my mind as having to be added. Ice dance in the early 90-ies!

    Can I also say that I thought U&Z should have won the silver medal in Albertville? JMVHO and all that jazz... But yes, 90s ice dance was beautiful.
    Saint Saens, Samson & Delilah
    Bechke & Petrov- professional routine

    Saint Saens, The Swan
    Mishkutenok & Dmitriev- 1990 SP

  5. #25

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    More Rachmaninoff (Links later):

    Alexander Abt - Euro's 2002? (Rach 2 & 3)

    Midori Ito - 92 Oly (Rach 1 & 3, I think)

    Klimova-Ponomarenko's pro routine to Tchaikovsky's 5th symphony is beautiful (I think it's been posted in another thread)

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by gkelly View Post
    -- with exceptions always welcome as contrast.
    . . . Unless it is Tone Loc's Wild Thing, which I never liked even when accompanied by amazing skating . . .

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    The influence of classical music on figure skating is like the lyrics from that song, 1985, by Bowling for Soup when it says "She's still preoccupied with 1985."

    Classical music was pop music when figure skating was born, and it is stuck in that style.
    Well, Jazz also came into existence before pop and didn’t change its style. I like that different music styles stay different and I think it’s great that skaters nowadays can choose between so many different music styles, still a lot of them love classics. And a lot of them skated adorable programmes to “modern classics”, this for example is one that comes immediately to my mind:

    Sasha Cohen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDWCrlkloPA (OG 2002, SP)

    The composer of that waltz, Evgenij Doga, was born in 1937 and I guess that piece of music was composed sometime in the 70-ies? (if anyone knows the exact date, please add)


    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    More Rachmaninoff (Links later):

    Alexander Abt - Euro's 2002? (Rach 2 & 3)
    I posted the link already, but here it is again (one shouldn’t miss out this one )
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86g-lZbNauU


    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    Midori Ito - 92 Oly (Rach 1 & 3, I think)
    Found a link, here it is:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=polwvMNVgFU
    Minute 3.35 of that programme still makes me

  8. #28
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    There is a gap of 300 years between Bach and Stravinksy, but only about 50 years separating Stravinksy and John Cage or Philip Glass. How does one define "classical music"? And, if one is to include Stravinsky/Debussy and Bach/Mozart in the same category, what about Prokofiev and Ravel, who (along with Stravinsky) were contemporaries with Duke Ellington and in fact had some cross-influence between them (Jazz and "modern classical")?
    Last edited by Jun Y; 01-05-2013 at 01:38 AM.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    For Ave Maria, I would definitely include T&M's SP in 2005, Annenko-Sretenski's pro and Oksana Baiul's exhibition. Also Krylova-Ovssianikov had a wonderful pro routine to this. Shishkova-Naumov skated a beautiful SP to Ave Maria around 1995 or 1996.
    Here is Shishkova/Naumovs programme: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxVrFEGDasw (1996 cenntenial on ice)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    There is a gap of 300 years between Bach and Stravinksy, but only about 50 years separating Stravinksy and John Cage or Philip Glass. How does one define "classical music"? And, if one is to include Stravinsky/Debussy and Bach/Mozart in the same category, what about Prokofiev and Ravel, who (along with Stravinsky) were contemporaries with Duke Ellington and in fact had some cross-influence between them (Jazz and "modern classical")?
    Defintion from wikipedia: "Classical music is the art music produced in, or rooted in, the traditions of Western liturgical and secular music, encompassing a broad period from roughly the 11th century to present times.The central norms of this tradition became codified between 1550 and 1900, which is known as the common practice period." - Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_music

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vash01 View Post
    For Brahms I would add Brasseur & Eisler's SP at the 1994 Olympics- one of the few times I enjoyed their skating as eligible skaters.
    Great example. Was called Hungarian Dance No. 5. Here is the performance:-

    Isabelle Brasseur & Lloyd Eisler - 1994 Olympics SP

    Christopher Bowman also skated to it:-

    1988 Olympics FS
    Last edited by Maofan7; 01-05-2013 at 02:23 AM.

  11. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    There is a gap of 300 years between Bach and Stravinksy, but only about 50 years separating Stravinksy and John Cage or Philip Glass. How does one define "classical music"? And, if one is to include Stravinsky/Debussy and Bach/Mozart in the same category, what about Prokofiev and Ravel, who (along with Stravinsky) were contemporaries with Duke Ellington and in fact had some cross-influence between them (Jazz and "modern classical")?
    Well, in theory, "Classical Music" should be defined as the music between the Baroque and Romanic period that began after JS Bach died to about the time Beethoven died, but I did not think that narrow definition fits the question since many skaters choose music from the Romantic period, like from Operas and Ballets.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jun Y View Post
    There is a gap of 300 years between Bach and Stravinksy, but only about 50 years separating Stravinksy and John Cage or Philip Glass. How does one define "classical music"? And, if one is to include Stravinsky/Debussy and Bach/Mozart in the same category, what about Prokofiev and Ravel, who (along with Stravinsky) were contemporaries with Duke Ellington and in fact had some cross-influence between them (Jazz and "modern classical")?
    There are different periods to define Baroque, classical, romantic and modern music. I don't remember all the dividing lines, but I had learned it in my music listening class. Typically though we refer to most of this music as 'classical'. Actually Rachmaninoff is a modern composer (in the 20th century), but we call his music 'classical', although we go strictly by definition, it's not.

  13. #33

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    Here is one of my favorites:

    Kristi Yamaguchi skating to Fantasie Impromptu by Chopin

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJxEAm9rEq4

    Mao Asada skating an exhibition to Chopin (Ballad 1)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qb9GJ1nS0w

    Mao's SP at 2006 Skate America:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmyUwtmch9w
    Last edited by Vash01; 01-05-2013 at 05:31 AM.

  14. #34

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    Re the definition of classical, I think in this case Wikipedia has a useful one:

    Classical music is the art music produced in, or rooted in, the traditions of Western liturgical and secular music, encompassing a broad period from roughly the 11th century to present times.[1] The central norms of this tradition became codified between 1550 and 1900, which is known as the common practice period.

    I assume this is correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    The influence of classical music on figure skating is like the lyrics from that song, 1985, by Bowling for Soup when it says "She's still preoccupied with 1985."

    Classical music was pop music when figure skating was born, and it is stuck in that style.
    Don't worry, soon music with lyrics will be allowed even outside ice dance, and then you will have as many Adele and hip-hop programs as you could possibly want. Or, as is the case in ice dance, many tributes to medleys.

    I agree with gkelly that classical music is well-suited to the quality of skating movement. The sheer number of classical compositions and their suitability to skating ensures their popularity, rather than skating being stuck in the days of Jackson Haines (when Vivaldi and Bach were not pop music - and really, Speedy et al. aren't that old ).

    Also, many skaters do not skate to classical music all that often,if at all - Takahashi mixes classical in occasionally but mostly does other things, Yuna Kim has done a few non-classical programs, and Akiko Suzuki and Kiira Korpi also have a mix of different types. Savchenko/Szolkowy don't seem to do classical at all and neither do Pechalat/Bourzat, Joubert's 9th symphony LP that was mentioned upthread is the only classical program I can recall him doing, and so on.

  15. #35
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    Tchaikovsky Violin Concerto D
    Stéphane Lambiel
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En8Bf0AfQXA

    Rachmaninoff Prelude g minor
    Stéphane Lambiel
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oz1cDQS7Pw

    Gounod Romeo&Juliet "Je veux vivre"
    Lambiel&Kostner
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBFuSRqA5SU

    Prokofiev Piano Concerto 1&3
    Carolina Kostner
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omkV2Za9nws

    Ravel Bolero
    Torvill-Dean
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rc-0BCSyWtc

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    Re the definition of classical, I think in this case Wikipedia has a useful one:

    Classical music is the art music produced in, or rooted in, the traditions of Western liturgical and secular music, encompassing a broad period from roughly the 11th century to present times.[1] The central norms of this tradition became codified between 1550 and 1900, which is known as the common practice period.

    I assume this is correct?
    Wikipedia is a great quick reference, but this definition is something that could just as well be on Urban Dictionary. It is about as nuanced as defining pairs skating in such a way that it includes both pairs and ice dance.

    I'm actually quite surprised that it includes Medieval music. Generally, common practice, which I assume is with respects to tonality, began with the restriction of parallel perfects. Then again, this is why the definition is particularly bad, it speaks almost exclusively about time rather than the characteristics of the music. Furthermore, what defines the eras within the common practice period are the aesthetic goals of the artists.

    With respects to this thread, this definition does not work because it leaves out Puccini, Bizet, Tchaikovsky, and Rachmaninoff. How many threads have there been that plead for the banning of Tosca, Carmen, and Swan Lake and gush about the emotional depth of programs to Rachmaninoff No. 2 and 3.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-05-2013 at 05:22 PM.

  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Wikipedia is a great quick reference, but this definition is something that could just as well be on Urban Dictionary. It is about as nuanced as defining pairs skating in such a way that it includes both pairs and ice dance.

    I'm actually quite surprised that it includes Medieval music. Generally, common practice, which I assume is with respects to tonality, began with the restriction of parallel perfects. Then again, this is why the definition is particularly bad, it speaks almost exclusively about time rather than the characteristics of the music. Furthermore, what defines the eras within the common practice period are the aesthetic goals of the artists.

    With respects to this thread, this definition does not work because it leaves out Puccini, Bizet, Tchaikovsky, and Rachmaninoff. How many threads have there been that plead for the banning of Tosca, Carmen, and Swan Lake and gush about the emotional depth of programs to Rachmaninoff No. 2 and 3.
    It's not a full definition, it's the introductory portion of the article, and as such it's not meant to be an exhaustive discussion of the history of classical music and the various views on how to define it. The [1] reference is to the OED, by the way, not Urban Dictionary.

    I don't see how it leaves out any of the composers you mentioned, since it does say "up to present times", and none of them lived before the 11th century.

    This is the Merriam-Webster definition, which makes no reference to any time period:
    music in the educated European tradition that includes such forms as art song, chamber music, opera, and symphony as distinguished from folk or popular music or jazz
    And here's a link to the actual definitions that are on Urban Dictionary.

    I'm too lazy to start combing music websites for definitions, but I assume that it's an easy term to define vaguely and a difficult one to define precisely. Kind of "I'll know it when I hear it" situation.

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    This is the Merriam-Webster definition, which makes no reference to any time period:


    And here's a link to the actual definitions that are on Urban Dictionary.

    I'm too lazy to start combing music websites for definitions, but I assume that it's an easy term to define vaguely and a difficult one to define precisely. Kind of "I'll know it when I hear it" situation.
    Yes, but in this case, however, you should have gone with the Urban Dictionary definition 1, which is more accurate than the definition from Wikipedia.

    1. classical music

    1) Historically the style of art music common in Europe during the period between the middle of the 17th century and the beginning of the 18th century. The works of Haydn and Mozart and the earlier work of Beethoven (who also played a large role in the transition from classical to romantic) are prime examples. Bach isn't classical. Tchaikovskij isn't classical. Chopin isn't classical.
    . . . much to my surprise.

    Defining the term precisely is actually quite easy if you can describe music with respects to structure, form, etc. I've heard that even an American high school student from the 1950s that never played a musical instrument or participated in musical performance was expected to be able to do this as part of standard curriculum.

    Defining the term vaguely is actually quite difficult since that assumes you are communicating with somebody that does not understand structure, form, etc. Most people today would have to learn this as an elective in college, if they chose such an elective among many other options.
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-05-2013 at 05:20 PM.

  19. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by bardtoob View Post
    Yes, but in this case, however, you should have gone with the Urban Dictionary definition 1, which is more accurate than the definition from Wikipedia.
    As I understand it, that would be considered a narrow definition that only looks at composers from the classical period - and a lot of people disagree with that as a definition of classical music. I'm not enough of an expert to have my own opinion, maybe because by the time I was in high school it was not part of the curriculum.

  20. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zemgirl View Post
    . . . by the time I was in high school it was not part of the curriculum.
    Same here, too young. Such a shame since we obviously have some kind of affinity to that subject

    If I had learned this in high school, I probably would not have been forced to take that 5th year of college, which is when I finally found the time to take business and econ courses
    Last edited by bardtoob; 01-05-2013 at 05:12 PM.

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