Male/Male Pairs Team

[Whitneyskates]

Years ago, probably mid to late 90's, I was watching a pro skating event and there was a pairs team made up of two men. They did some interesting moves but I can't for the life of me remember their names and I have never seen them again. Does anyone else remember this, or know anything about them?

[manleywoman]

Blades of Glory?

[Whitneyskates]

No, but I saw that movie a couple days ago and that's what prompted me to think about that team.

[DaiKozOda]

A pair of two males? Well, I can only remember Vladimir Besedin & Alexei Polishchuk (very exciting) and Zarakian with a bloke who's name I can't recall?

[MacMadame]

If it was a show on tv, then it was probably one of the "acrobat" teams where they did a lot of physical comedy but not a lot of skating.

[blue_idealist]

I remember an adagio pair of two males. I think it was Beseden and Polishchuk, actually.

[care bear]

A pair of two males? Well, I can only remember Vladimir Besedin & Alexei Polishchuk (very exciting) and Zarakian with a bloke who's name I can't recall?

His name is Akop Manoukian.

[fan]

isn't there something called the gay games where 2 males or 2 females can compete in pairs?

[care bear]

If we look at the history of figure skating. It is interesting to know that until the 1900s only men competed at the pair skating. The brothers Gustav and Karl Euler were very succesfull btw.

[orbitz]

If we look at the history of figure skating. It is interesting to know that until the 1900s only men competed at the pair skating. The brothers Gustav and Karl Euler were very succesfull btw.

I bet no male-male pairs back then skated to music like Romeo & Juliet though

David Santee and Jimmy Santee skated together as the Blues Brother in the 80s.

[GarrAarghHrumph]

It probably was Vladimir Besedin & Oleksiy Polishchuk. They were on TV in the US a few years ago. This is a link to one of their routines, is this who you think you saw? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6R3AoqWaoo

Here is another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQNjnTmylYE

They still perform. They were in Yu Na Kim's shows. I believe they're based in NJ.

I think that Vladimir has mostly retired from performing, but I'm not sure about that.

[Whitneyskates]

I think that is them.

[maatTheViking]

It probably was Vladimir Besedin & Oleksiy Polishchuk. They were on TV in the US a few years ago. This is a link to one of their routines, is this who you think you saw? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6R3AoqWaoo

Here is another: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQNjnTmylYE

They still perform. They were in Yu Na Kim's shows. I believe they're based in NJ.

I think that Vladimir has mostly retired from performing, but I'm not sure about that.

Sorry for thread drift, but I wonder about the 'handstand' lifts - are they not legal in actual pairs competition, or just not getting as many points as the lifts that are? Does anyone know why? The look pretty cool, and seem to require a lot of strength, too.

[gkelly]

Sorry for thread drift, but I wonder about the 'handstand' lifts - are they not legal in actual pairs competition, or just not getting as many points as the lifts that are? Does anyone know why? The look pretty cool, and seem to require a lot of strength, too.

To the best of my knowledge (which is not very extensive when it comes to pairs)...

Pair lifts that count for points must rotate -- at least 1 full rotation and not more than 3 1/2 of the man on the ice. There also used to be minimum number of revolutions for the lady in the air, but that seems to have been recently deleted.

(I'm using the words "man" and "lady" because they're the official words in the pair skating rules and because they take less time and are clearer than "lifting partner" and "lifted partner" -- obviously for a same-sex pair they wouldn't be accurate.)

Pair lifts that count for points must use one of the following holds at takeoff:
group 1: hand to armpit (not often used at elite levels)
group 2: hand to waist
group 3: hand to hip
group 4: hand-to-hand press (no rotation on the way up)
group 5: hand-to-hand lasso (lady rotates on the way up)

The lady also has to take off from one foot.

The hold can change after the man has extended his arms overhead. The allowable holds are hand to hand, hand to arm, hand to body, hand to upper leg (above knee; this is a change that wasn't allowed until recently).

So if you're talking about something like this lift, the takeoff is group 4, but it doesn't qualify as an official pair lift because the man doesn't rotate at all.

Historically nonrotational overhead lifts, i.e., "carry lifts," were not legal in pair competition and were only used in show skating, along with other types of illegal lift-type moves like detroiters and headbanger spins.

Several years ago, the rules were changed to allow carry lifts in junior and senior freeskates. A whole lift that is all carry with no rotation can have any kind of hold, but it gets no points and only counts as a transition. So as I understand the rules, the lift I cued up in the link above would not require a deduction as an illegal element in a junior or senior pairs freeskate but it would also add nothing to the technical score.

The other possibility would be to use a carry feature within a rotational lift. E.g., if it started out like the lift referenced above, but with a one-foot takeoff (which would make it much harder) and then transitioned to a stabler legal position and then rotated an appropriate number of times, I think it would then be called as a group 4 lift with a difficult carry feature.

I.e., none of the lifts in that program would earn points, but it might be possible to achieve a hand-to-hand handstand position as a feature within a legal lift. If I'm wrong, I hope someone more knowledgeable will correct me.

The lady doing a handstand on the man's head, back, shoulders, etc., would not be legal in an element lift but might be in a transitional carry lift.

http://www.isu.org/vsite/vfile/page/...-0-file,00.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_...fts#Pair_lifts

[sk8er1964]

isn't there something called the gay games where 2 males or 2 females can compete in pairs?

Yes.

[PinkFeathers]

Don't forget Johnny and Stéphane

[DaiKozOda]

His name is Akop Manoukian.

Thanks. That's the guy!

[Rock2]

Pair lifts that count for points must use one of the following holds at takeoff:
group 1: hand to armpit (not often used at elite levels)
group 2: hand to waist
group 3: hand to hip
group 4: hand-to-hand press (no rotation on the way up)
group 5: hand-to-hand lasso (lady rotates on the way up)

Ah, 17 years later something's making sense. I've seen one group 1 lift that I can recall and I remember when I saw it wondering if it was legal:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...DrEfGfw#t=200s