View Poll Results: Would Michelle Kwan have likely won the 2002 Olympics if Frank Carroll remained coach

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  • Yes

    58 62.37%
  • No

    11 11.83%
  • Don't Know

    24 25.81%
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  1. #21

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    Here is a beautiful look for Michelle--in Vera Wang as Peggy notes--and a beautiful program.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYH8X...0769D1141F8D94

  2. #22

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    Answer: Donno
    The requirements at her time were different so the training would be different too. TES is more important now than before, so the more athletic lady may have a better chance of making it to the top now than before. Having said these, noone can take away her achievements of her time. Oh.. yes, I love her Vera Wang costumes.
    Prosperity makes friends, adversity tries them. – Publilius Syrus

  3. #23
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    I wasn't following skating intensely at the time, so what was the argument (or perceived argument) against Rush and MM?

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    Actually, from what I remember reading at the time Kwan was the one who wanted to seek other choreographers and be more gutsy with 3/3s while Frank was true to his 80% success rate in practice before trying anything in competition. ...... Sarah Kawahara who choreographed Kwan's Scheherezade program even said that Frank already had all the music cuts chosen before Kawahara started to choreograph it.

    As for why Kwan wasn't more ambitious with her triple/triples after Frank? She tried to be in Skate Canada and fell to third for the first time since 1995 so that probably scared her. Then in 2003-2004 Kwan was just skating back to basics and started suffering more from her hip injury (plus just her inability) probably prevented her from being as ambitious as many would have liked.
    She never did explain the split, but she seemed more agressive in trying other triple triple combinations afterward. I found it interesting that she was practicing 3sal-3loop a few weeks later at Skate America. Then, a 3lutz-3loop appeared at Skate Canada. She also practiced 3lutz-3loop at GPF that year. At some point, her hip injury set in (2004?).

    The music cuts to Scheherezade were just plain awful-no wonder Kawahara's work wasn't showcased properly. Much like other Kwan programs, many nuances were removed later in the season.

    I can't understand why Kwan never had a new short program to begin that season. We can't necessarily say Rach was a poor choice since she won the short program at the Olympics. I'm sure Kwan was relieved when the 2002 season ended. She skated in about 8 competitions (including cheesefests) and had unreal pressure at the Olympics. If 2002 didn't happen, then we wouldn't have the 2003 season which was a pure joy to witness.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clay View Post
    She never did explain the split, but she seemed more agressive in trying other triple triple combinations afterward. I found it interesting that she was practicing 3sal-3loop a few weeks later at Skate America. Then, a 3lutz-3loop appeared at Skate Canada. She also practiced 3lutz-3loop at GPF that year.
    She was trying those different 3-3s because of pressure from the media to increase her difficulty and probably also from her own inner circle to do so. In hindsight if Kwan had been able to block out external pressure and stuck with her game plan, ie doing 3t-3t, then she would have felt more comfortable for the 01-02 season.


    I can't understand why Kwan never had a new short program to begin that season. We can't necessarily say Rach was a poor choice since she won the short program at the Olympics.
    I think the judges would have awarded Kwan 1st place in the SP at SLC regardless of which program she skated to. It was a poor choice, because it was a pale imitation of the original, IMO.

  6. #26

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    Never knew she used her SP as her exhibition at 2001 Nationals. That was a first and probably a sign that something was amiss.

    As for coming up with an SP for the Olympic season, I "made" her an SP from the last ~2:40 of Red Violin. Amazing how well it fits together. Oh well, too bad she didn't ask me, or any other fans.
    Keeper of Nathalie Pechelat's bitchface.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coco View Post
    Never knew she used her SP as her exhibition at 2001 Nationals. That was a first and probably a sign that something was amiss.

    As for coming up with an SP for the Olympic season, I "made" her an SP from the last ~2:40 of Red Violin. Amazing how well it fits together. Oh well, too bad she didn't ask me, or any other fans.
    I think the reason why Michelle used her SP as her exhibition at Boston 2001 was that she scored 7 6.0's during the short program.

  8. #28

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    And her Beautiful World exhibition caused her to lose to Josee Chouinard at some Pro-Am.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    And her Beautiful World exhibition caused her to lose to Josee Chouinard at some Pro-Am.
    The 2000 Canadian Open, a month or so before. She did skate to "Beautiful World" at the 2000-1 Grand Prix Final, however.
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadya View Post
    Many figure skaters just have one or two fabulous programs which you can watch again and again. In Kwan's case it's almost every program she skated. I can't choose one favourite program of hers because it's always more than I enjoy for different reasons but equally as much. There is no female skater who has that imho.
    You spoke for me, as well!

    I'll always miss her on-ice!
    However few skaters could ever hope for a better catalogue of glorious performances for us to enjoy, for many years to come.

    Thank you, Michelle!
    Last edited by skatesindreams; 01-01-2013 at 07:11 PM.

  11. #31

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    I almost voted "yes," but went with "I don't know." My personal feeling is that, as Jenny Kirk noted, Michelle put so much pressure on herself to be an Olympic Champion that it was most likely counter-productive (especially in 2002, I would think, where she may have felt she had something to prove). It's hard to know if Frank's input would have helped her confidence or not.

    Brian Boitano talked a lot about how he and Linda Leaver spent so much time mentally preparing for the Olympics, psychologically going through a "winning" scenario. He called it the "bubble" that they created and it obviously worked for him. Of course, not every champion prepares with such tactics, but does anyone know if Michelle ever worked that way? She had such a winning record at Nats and Worlds, maybe she didn't feel she needed something like that.
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  12. #32

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    Although Karen Kwan's figure skating career was eclipsed by that of Michelle, Karen was a very good skater in her own right. Here are a few videos which bring that out:-

    U.S. Nationals 1995 (7th): Short Program

    U.S. Nationals 1996 (5th): Short Program, Free Skate

    U.S. Nationals 1997 (7th): Short Program, Free Skate

    Her best result internationally was a 3rd placed finish in the Nebelhorn Trophy in 1996
    Last edited by Maofan7; 01-02-2013 at 07:31 PM.

  13. #33
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    whether she would /wouldn't i don't know--my reasons as to more no

    in 1998- under frank carroll-1) landed 7 jumps to tara 5-not going into that
    2) jumped higher than tara
    3) had higher artistry marks than tara in free program-
    4) michelle was better artisticly
    5)michelle made no major mistakes-she skated clean/interpreted program well,
    the only thing tara had over michelle was she skated a little faster -i can go into reason why her being so young as that helped her look prepubscent.
    so if the judges didn't give it to michelle over tara than-what makes people think she would have won in 2002 under frank -since frank criticzed her publicly along time, and publicly stated he was still upset over the 1980 mess with annett/linda. think of how frank gushed and help mirai, did he do that form michelle, i can't hardly think of time he did.
    the ogm for me is made up ahead of time by who the federation wants and who they think can sell better and who fits the usfsa image better.
    they screwed up with michelle kwan, and still are.

  14. #34
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    Thanks for this!!!

    A "Today in Kwan History" tidbit: today is the 15-year anniversary of the Kween's glorious 1998 Nationals free skate.

  15. #35

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    Isn't this also the nine-year anniversary of her 2004 US Nats free skate?
    I can call the moon a pear, but it doesn't make it so. -- kwanfan1818

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by UMBS Go Blue View Post
    Thanks for this!!!

    A "Today in Kwan History" tidbit: today is the 15-year anniversary of the Kween's glorious 1998 Nationals free skate.
    ALL HAIL!!

  17. #37

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    ^^^
    Indeed!

    How the years have flown.
    It seems like only yesterday!

  18. #38
    KWEEN 2016! YES WE KWAN!
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post
    Isn't this also the nine-year anniversary of her 2004 US Nats free skate?
    EYS!

  19. #39
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    I will forever wish I could have been in that building 8 years ago

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by falling_dance View Post
    Isn't this also the nine-year anniversary of her 2004 US Nats free skate?
    OMG THAT WAS 9 YEARS AGO????

    OMG OMG.

    I literally just almost fell on the floor. That seems like yesterday.

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