A question about the 1961 Nationals

[FSWer]

Say,I don't know if anyone else hee owns the DVD. and has noticed this on it. But on the DVD. of the 1961 Nationals,there is NO Short Program. They rather refer to that part as..."Contents of Program". I never knew they called it anything else before that. Do we have a History on this?

[Sylvia]

Back then the short program didn't exist. The 2 parts of competition in singles skating were compulsory (school) figures and then free skating. You can read a summary of 1961 U.S. Nationals here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_Un..._Championships

You can read more about the history of the short program here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_p...igure_skating)

The short program was first introduced in the 1964 season for pair skating competitions.
...
For single skating, figure skating competitions used to consist of compulsory figures and free skating only. The short program was introduced in the 1973 season as part of a reform to reduce the weight of the compulsory figures and provide an additional event suitable for television coverage of skating competitions. Originally, the short program for singles had only 6 required elements (three jumps, two spins, and one step sequence). It was competed for the first time at Nebelhorn Trophy in late summer of 1972.

[FSWer]

Oh,I was thinking that there was always a Short Program,and it just had a different name back then. BTW. I noticed that back then they were using words Skating Fans could understand. Do we also have a History on when and WHY they switched to the coo-kee point symtem and why?

[kwanfan1818]

The ISU had been thinking about a change to the 6.0 system after gymnastics changed from the 10.0 system to a new one which gave a difficulty score and a quality (execution) score and added them together.

After the pairs judging scandal at the 2002 Olympics, where the International Olympic Committee questioned the ISU about the judging system, the ISU tested the new system at Nebelhorn (7 months later), and it was used for Senior B's and Grand Prix events in the 2003-4 season. In the 2004-5 season, it was used for European Championships, Four continents, and World Championships. In 2006 it was used in the Olympics for the first time.

[danafan]

The ISU had been thinking about a change to the 6.0 system after gymnastics changed from the 10.0 system to a new one which gave a difficulty score and a quality (execution) score and added them together..

Skating changed its scoring system first. Gymnastics switched to the "new" ie non 10.0 maximum score in January 2006.

[kwanfan1818]

That's so weird -- the incorrect narrative I've read was that the ISU had it's eye on the gymnastics scoring system before the 2002 Olympics. How long was the gymnastics system in development before it was implemented?

[danafan]

I don't remember when the draft of the 2006 COP was published - I was in denial that the 10.0 was disappearing. The FIG decided to change after some judging issues at the 2004 Olympics (mostly men's). Normally a new code is introduced the year following the Olympics, but since this change was so drastic they needed an extra year to put it in place.

Hardy Fink, a Canadian and former FIG men's technical committee member had proposed an open ended scoring system for years, but I don't think the FIG took this seriously until after the 2004 Olympics, and I don't know enough about Fink's original ideas to know how much the 2006 COP resembled what he had in mind.

[kwanfan1818]

Thank you danafan. Sorry FSWer, I didn't mean to give you wrong information. Whatever made the ISU start to think and talk about the new judging system, it started before the Salt Lake City Olympics, but the judging scandal gave them an opportunity to implement it fast.

[FSWer]

The ISU had been thinking about a change to the 6.0 system after gymnastics changed from the 10.0 system to a new one which gave a difficulty score and a quality (execution) score and added them together.

After the pairs judging scandal at the 2002 Olympics, where the International Olympic Committee questioned the ISU about the judging system, the ISU tested the new system at Nebelhorn (7 months later), and it was used for Senior B's and Grand Prix events in the 2003-4 season. In the 2004-5 season, it was used for European Championships, Four continents, and World Championships. In 2006 it was used in the Olympics for the first time.

What judging System was used at the 1961 Nationals? Was there a Short/Long Program in the Pairs and Dance?

[gkelly]

What judging System was used at the 1961 Nationals? Was there a Short/Long Program in the Pairs and Dance?

6.0 scoring

Pairs had just one program (freeskate)

Dance had compulsory dance and free dance

[FSWer]

6.0 scoring

Pairs had just one program (freeskate)

Dance had compulsory dance and free dance

How was the 6.0 System decided on from the begining of History, when it's turned out to be so confusing along with the 2002 Pairs Scandle? BTW. how did they deside the winners of the Pairs back then?

[gkelly]

The 6.0 system dates all the way back to the late 19th century when most of the competition was school figures -- tracing figure eights (two circles touching each other) first on one foot and then the other. The judges scored the circles on the ice based on how well drawn they were.

The same numbers were then also applied to freeskating performances. The judges gave two scores to freeskating: originally the first mark was for difficulty and the second mark was for how well it was performed. Later the "how well" came to include some measures of artistry.

Pair skating was always just freeskating -- the first pair competitions were in the early 20th century.