View Poll Results: Would you consider Yu Na Kim best ever with 2nd Olympic Gold

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  • yes

    196 52.69%
  • no

    176 47.31%
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  1. #21
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    Really in most sports and events IMO there is no best ever, just a chain of GOATs or a best of their generations. This is definitely true of ladies singles which IMO is an event which clearly has nobody that stands out from the rest enough to be considered greatest ever. Instead I look at it as a chain of greatest evers from Henjie to Fleming to Lynn to Fratianne to Witt to Ito to Yamaguchi to Kwan to Kim, with honorable mentions to the greatest compulsory figures skater ever Trixi Schuba, Irina Slutskaya, and Mao Asada on the side. Rare caes where one can be claimed as the GOAT is when ones records, impact, dominance, and sheer everything is just more than everyone else, like Michael Phelps in swimming. I would say the only figure skating discipline which has a true greatest ever is Torvill & Dean and ice dancing, and that is all. Even then some would argue for Kimova & Ponomarenko or Gritschuk & Platov. The other 3 events have nobody that is so clearly above the rest to warrant being recognized as greatest ever, just a succession or group of greatest.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    ^ Just an FYI, I am not an uber Mao fan. I admit, I am not a fan of Yuna; I think she is overhyped, and her fans calling her "Queen" Yuna was really excessive.

    And I was never talking about her performances at NRW Trophy; I was talking about Yuna as a skater, and not much has changed in her as a skater since 2007.
    Fans are fans what can you do, should you diss Michelle Kwan just because the fans nickname her Kween? I don't think so...

    I personally have not called her Queen (I have my own HRM Queen Elizabeth II) but thought it was cute and fitting consider her Olympic performance was indeed majestic. In anycase Yuna expressed herself recently at NRW she is really embarrassed by this nickname so maybe that hint the future to come. As for the hype side, I do believe it was the US who latched onto this idea declared by Tom Hammond at the end of her Olympic FS: Long live the Queen.

    Who do you think deserve more hype than Yuna I wonder? I thought any hype is good for this sport frankly, it could certainly do with more hype.

  3. #23
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    True, Yu Na fans calling her Queen is no different than Kwan fans calling Kwan the Kween as far as I can see. The sport definitely needs more hype in North America right now, the sport is near dead her it seems, but I think only a big North American skating star who appeals to the public, which neither Lysacek or Chan seem to, will solve that problem. If Wagner or Gold can become a big star on the coming years it might be what does it.

  4. #24
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    No I don't think so at all.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    True, Yu Na fans calling her Queen is no different than Kwan fans calling Kwan the Kween as far as I can see.
    I don't really think it's the same thing. Yuna became Queen Yuna to the general public because she put up some extraordinary scores in the 10 months between 2009 Worlds and the 2010 Olympics. Michelle Kwan became the Kween because she literally dominated a generation (even if she didn't win everything, she placed very well) and was the complete package on ice.*

    I don't think Yuna will win this one, unfortunately. It's way too early to judge her place in figure skating history, and then, I'm still not going to pick a greatest skater--and especially not one who earns the title because of the number of Olympic golds she has! We can all point to an Olympics where the scoring did not work out in a way that we think was appropriate (to use an oldie, for example, I still think Cecilia Colledge should have won the 1936 OGM over Henie).

    *say what you will about her Olympic performances, but Michelle Kwan is, in so many ways, the complete package, period. Not only was she a brilliant skater with an amazing sense of how to perform on ice, but she's also a very bright young woman who has proven herself capable of doing significant and quality work off-ice. This was totally an OT thing, but she deserves a ton of credit.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Really in most sports and events IMO there is no best ever, just a chain of GOATs or a best of their generations. This is definitely true of ladies singles which IMO is an event which clearly has nobody that stands out from the rest enough to be considered greatest ever. Instead I look at it as a chain of greatest evers from Henjie to Fleming to Lynn to Fratianne to Witt to Ito to Yamaguchi to Kwan to Kim, with honorable mentions to the greatest compulsory figures skater ever Trixi Schuba, Irina Slutskaya, and Mao Asada on the side. Rare caes where one can be claimed as the GOAT is when ones records, impact, dominance, and sheer everything is just more than everyone else, like Michael Phelps in swimming. I would say the only figure skating discipline which has a true greatest ever is Torvill & Dean and ice dancing, and that is all. Even then some would argue for Kimova & Ponomarenko or Gritschuk & Platov. The other 3 events have nobody that is so clearly above the rest to warrant being recognized as greatest ever, just a succession or group of greatest.
    ALL OF THIS! I am certainly in agreement

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by judgejudy27 View Post
    Really in most sports and events IMO there is no best ever, just a chain of GOATs or a best of their generations. This is definitely true of ladies singles which IMO is an event which clearly has nobody that stands out from the rest enough to be considered greatest ever. Instead I look at it as a chain of greatest evers from Henjie to Fleming to Lynn to Fratianne to Witt to Ito to Yamaguchi to Kwan to Kim, with honorable mentions to the greatest compulsory figures skater ever Trixi Schuba, Irina Slutskaya, and Mao Asada on the side. Rare caes where one can be claimed as the GOAT is when ones records, impact, dominance, and sheer everything is just more than everyone else, like Michael Phelps in swimming. I would say the only figure skating discipline which has a true greatest ever is Torvill & Dean and ice dancing, and that is all. Even then some would argue for Kimova & Ponomarenko or Gritschuk & Platov. The other 3 events have nobody that is so clearly above the rest to warrant being recognized as greatest ever, just a succession or group of greatest.
    I agree most of it. However, Gordeeva-Grinkov are still considered the greatest pair ever. I know it will change eventually, but right now they still own the throne.

    Among men it's impossible to say greatest ever about anyone, because this discipline is the most rapidly evolving discipline, and the most exciting for that reason, IMO. Among ladies it is the same problem but the sport has not evolved as rapidly as in the men.

    Perhaps we should be talking about -e.g.- the greatest jumper, the greatest spinner, the most complete skater (not necessarily based on medal count), the greatest 'figures' skater, and so on.

  8. #28
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    Hmmm I have no problem with Gordeeva & Grinkov being called the best ever, but I didnt know they were the clear cut winners. I thought the Protopopovs, Rodnina, Miskutienok & Dmitriev, and Shen & Zhoa (I totally disagree on Shen & Zhoa but they have some backers as the best pair ever) also had some consideration.

  9. #29

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    Best ever?
    Even if I'm an uber of Yuna Kim, I wouldn't say such a way.

    One of the best skaters of her time?
    Yes!
    Last edited by RunnersHigh; 12-21-2012 at 06:23 AM.
    This too will pass away.

  10. #30
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    Calling somebody “best ever” is a subjective thing at best, and it depends on the criteria in consideration. To some Jordan is the greatest of all time, for others it could be Russell, Chamberlain, Magic or LeBron. For some Woods is the best ever, for others it could be Jones, Hogan or Nicklaus.

    For me, Yu-Na Kim is already ONE of the all-time greats. IMO she is among the best ever in each of the following categories:

    - power
    - speed
    - precision
    - elegance
    - performance finesse
    - performance versatility
    - body of quality works
    - competition records
    - dominance
    - consistency
    - intangibles / star quality (wow factor)
    - mental toughness

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by smarts1 View Post
    No... Sure, she's won many competitions convincingly, but quite honestly, she's really just a jumper (and really only a 3 triple jumper at that because her loop and salchow suck). Most of her spin positions are awful; she lacks line and full polish. She is somewhat artistic, but will never go down in history as one of the most artistic skaters. She rarely has skated perfectly clean LPs.

    As an all around skater, then maybe yes.
    Her salchow is good! She's tried 21 times (2006-2012) - Just 1 fall, 1 popped, otherwise fully rotated (2 step-out in 2006 though) She put some transitions into this jump (like Gershwin program). Not as huge as her 3Lz or 3F, but her 3S is consistent and fine, not sucks
    Her spin is not as great as Alissa's or Caroline's, but she's a good spinner, too - usually get level 4, fast, centered. Her signature layover camel spin is lovely, her upper body is quite flexible - almost parallel to the ice. Some people complain about her feet, but it's not distracting to me.
    I think her line and position are fine - I admit that her feet are not pretty, but her upper body movement is very beautiful - her arm, shoulder, neck movements are one of the bests in the ladies. (Didn't British commentator say like this before?)
    As for the clean program - yes, it's so rare to see her clean LP - IIRC, she has done perfect clean program with 7 triples (including 3Lo, 3Lz, 3-3) three times. But I want to know this - Is there any skater who easily does perfectly clean LP (including true 3Lz, difficult 3-3, and no edge call and UR)?

    Back to the topic - No, Yuna is my favorite skater, but I would not say she's the best ever in history. I would not call anybody 'the best ever'. One of the greatest skaters? Yes!
    Last edited by naan; 12-21-2012 at 10:32 AM.

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by RunnersHigh View Post
    Best ever?
    Even if I'm an uber of Yuna Kim, I wouldn't say such a way.

    One of the best skaters of her time?
    Yes!
    THIS!
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by os168 View Post


    .... Wait did I just step into a warped Time Machine... Is Sochi already over? I am stunned Ando didn't win!! I was looking forward to her as Princess Leia (with 2 buns) to top off her last Cleopatra Olympic effort. I am soooooo sorry Andofanatic! .. but why not anonymous voting just curious? Are you trying to compile a new list of some kind

    Since we have the time machine. Mind if we skip to Peyongchang 2018 also, I want to know if Hanyu/Patrick and Julia/Liza have won already, have they changed new coaches? Or if Kaetlyn Osmond, Gracie Gold, Li Zijun, Karen Chen are still around and winning everything. Or that Fumie is still going for the JP nationals qualifiers and have finally been inducted into the Japanese Hall of Fame already.
    This and also, is the OP forgetting about Katarina Witt, Sonja Henie and Dick Button?

    Are future skaters who get OGM by landing quints going to trump any previous multiple OGM winners that only did doubles, triples?

    I wonder if the OP is a Mao fan in disguise, trying to send out jinx vibrations through the universe to Yuna.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by leafygreens View Post

    I wonder if the OP is a Mao fan in disguise, trying to send out jinx vibrations through the universe to Yuna.


    Yes, as a Yuna fan, I don't like this thread at all, but if the question must be asked,

    if Yuna can win another Worlds and OGM, that would surely cement her status as one of the all-time greats.

    And more subjectively, Yuna is already the best female skater I've seen since the 80's in terms of total package. (as for Sonja Henie and the likes, I've never seen them, so I can't honestly compare).

  15. #35

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    I'll never understand why people are so obsessed with "best evers" or "greatest evers". There's never going to be a uniform consensus on who THE best ever is. Like anoer poster said, this is such a multifaceted sport. And why does it matter? Does it make you enjoy a certain skater any more or less if she gets named the best ever?

  16. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskarne View Post
    No because Plushenko will put on a skirt again and come do ladies when he's too old to land quads anymore and win all the things there too.
    Maybe he will skate both events in 2014 as the only Russian singles skater to conquer the puberty monster.

  17. #37
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    best ever depends on alot of things, winning 2nd gold medal doesn't qualify best ever, maybe in certain countries like korea and her fan base.

    1) if overinflated scores and cheat for them. in otherwords over looked ur.
    2) money situation involved,
    3) politics involved.
    4) should and could have won the worlds in 2010 and 2011 due to her mistakes,
    5) handle pressure (how can have pressure on them when screw up and still win, get big scores so they know ahead even if mess up still win.)

    most importantly peoples (public opinion) of them. whether they think they are. some will some won't. that simple

  18. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by victoriaheidi View Post
    I don't really think it's the same thing. Yuna became Queen Yuna to the general public because she put up some extraordinary scores in the 10 months between 2009 Worlds and the 2010 Olympics. Michelle Kwan became the Kween because she literally dominated a generation (even if she didn't win everything, she placed very well) and was the complete package on ice.
    Spoken as a true Kwanatic.

    Let's face it, Kwan became the "Kween" because she was a good competitor and her fans thought it a cute title, with the "Kw" spelling. Kwan = Kween. I see nothing wrong with that (and I am not, nor ever have been, a Kwan-uber).
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  19. #39
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    Yuna's toe jumps are monsters, the only reason why her salchow might look "bad" to some is just because her 3lz, 3f, and 3t (and also 2a) are huge and basically textbook. Her 3s is a nice jump, and like another poster mentioned, she usually attempts it out of difficult transitions which makes it tougher. The height she gets on it and rideout are both good, it's just the entrance that isn't ideal, but again, transitions into it will have that effect.

    Yuna's upper body is very expressive. And I actually think the fact that she isn't so flexible gives her skating a unique dimension on the ice. She is very fast and powerful, athletic type of skater. Sure she is also very expressive through the face and upper body, but to me, even though you couldn't tell it looking at them off the ice, Yuna on the ice just seems so much more powerful than some of the skaters known for being really flexible like Mao, Alissa, Julia, etc, never fragile even despite her slight build, it's actually a good quality I think.

  20. #40
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    Yu Na Kim is probably the greatest toe jumper ever. She does triple lutz-triple toe and triple flip-triple toe combinations so well and easily like they are nothing.

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