Takahashi & Tran split

[pair mom]

I believe that Lacoste tried pairs skating a few years back. I want to say that she went to France, though I can't remember who she was with. I don't believe she liked skating pairs.

Cedric (?) Bonheur ? ...can't recall his first name. Then he shaked for a couple of years with Vanessa James.

[pair mom]

Cedric (?) Bonheur ? ...can't recall his first name. Then he shaked for a couple of years with Vanessa James.

Sorry...brain cramp....Yannik Bonheur!

[easilydistracte]

Apologies if my question has been answered somewhere else, but just wanted to know which FS Federation has jurisdiction over Mervin Tran--Japan or Canada?--since he's been competing for Japan the last few years before T&T split. If Japan has jurisdiction, how much of a problem would it be for him to be released so he can skate for Canada? (Posted in this thread since it concerns Tran and not Takahashi and her new partner.)

[kwanfan1818]

It's interesting, because my interpretation of the wording of Rule 109, which provides for an ISU exception to be granted to a skater or team whose old Federation wouldn't release them (after two years), seems written for the case of someone who attains new citizenship and wants to skate for that country, rather than someone who had been skating for another country and wants to compete for the country of citizenship.

That would only be applicable if the Japanese Fed refused to release him. Although she dumped him, presumably with at least their support, they still might not want their investment in him to help defeat their new team down the road, so they could delay or refuse a release.

[sammyf]

Or Tran could continue to skate for Japan and find another Japanese partner.

[Spareoom]

Only if he and that new partner had no intention of ever competing at an Olympic Games.

I guess I just don't understand why skaters would enter a mixed-country partnership while knowing that obtaining the proper citizenship to compete at the Olympics would be almost impossible to obtain. Male skating partners are always in high demand; Tran could have found anyone inside of Canada but he with with Takahashi instead. I suppose if one never intends to compete at the Olympics it would be a non-issue, but if you're investing the time and effort to get to that level, why do it with so many prohibitions?

[skateboy]

Only if he and that new partner had no intention of ever competing at an Olympic Games.

I guess I just don't understand why skaters would enter a mixed-country partnership while knowing that obtaining the proper citizenship to compete at the Olympics would be almost impossible to obtain. Male skating partners are always in high demand; Tran could have found anyone inside of Canada but he with with Takahashi instead. I suppose if one never intends to compete at the Olympics it would be a non-issue, but if you're investing the time and effort to get to that level, why do it with so many prohibitions?

This.

[kwanfan1818]

Tran was a singles skater who was asked by Gauthier and Richard to try out with Takahashi. He took the opportunity. The assumption is that their training was at least partially subsidized by the Japanese Federation. There was no guarantee that he would ever succeed as a Pairs skater.

As for why someone would go into a mixed citizenship partner, if the Olympics aren't the only goal for an athlete, or if he wouldn't have a realistic change to make the Olympics in his own country, there are plenty of reasons to skate for a Federation where there is less competition: neither Tran, nor Copely, Tobias, Tikhonov (until he teamed with Petrova), Markuntsev, and many others had a chance of getting regular international assignments, period. The ability to compete regularly and around the world is a compelling one. Even if he paid for all of his training, he got to go to multiple GP's and championships, and he got a lot more competitive experience than if his season ended with Canadian Nationals, and he was still paying for all of that training.

Now that he's had the foundation and is recognized as one of the best male Pairs skaters around, and he has a Worlds medal -- who was the last Canadian Pair to be on the Worlds podium? -- he would be competitive at Canadian Nationals with any decent new partner, and would have a shot at a 4C's spot, given how thin the field is in Canada at the moment.

[Spareoom]

Given how it started out, I guess I can see how maybe a small experiment turned into something much larger than Tran could have ever dreamed of. Hindsight is 20/20, after all.

But now that he's free and clear and is probably a pretty hot commodity on the partner search network, if he decided to go BACK to a non-Olympics eligible partnership, he'd be plain stupid. Unless he truly has no desire to compete at the Olympics, in which case he had better make sure his new partner doesn't want to either.

[Proustable]

Now that he's had the foundation and is recognized as one of the best male Pairs skaters around, and he has a Worlds medal -- who was the last Canadian Pair to be on the Worlds podium? -- he would be competitive at Canadian Nationals with any decent new partner, and would have a shot at a 4C's spot, given how thin the field is in Canada at the moment.

Dube/Davison - 2008.

Given Tran's tweets, I would be surprised if he competed for anyone other than Canada/

[flowerpower]

Actually the last Canadian pairs team to be on the world podium was Dube/Davison - not that long ago. If one argues that they skated lights out and benefited from some others' mistakes, that would be just as true of Takahashi/Tran. I don't think that inherently Tran is better than Davison, Radford or Moscovitch. They are all strong pairs partners.

But yes, Mervin was a singles skater who was approached by Richard Gauthier specifically as a pairs partner for Narumi. Narumi's extremely petite build meant that Mervin's relatively short height was not a problem; they clicked and had success. But it was a bit of luck, really, that they connected at all.

[flowerpower]

del

(edited to remove duplicate post)

[kwanfan1818]

Actually the last Canadian pairs team to be on the world podium was Dube/Davison - not that long ago.

and I was there

Dube/Davison - 2008.

I was going to mention them, but then remembered that it was a bit of a fluke that M-T/M had a bad competition, which, of course, is always possible.

[The Accordion]

and I was there


I was going to mention them, but then remembered that it was a bit of a fluke that M-T/M had a bad competition, which, of course, is always possible.

? ? MTM didn't compete until 2009/10.

[kwanfan1818]

Sorry, I read the second link said "Dube/Wolfe" as an example of a team that could get together with one relatively inexperienced partner and get to compete quickly.

[Ziggy]

But now that [Tran's] free and clear and is probably a pretty hot commodity on the partner search network, if he decided to go BACK to a non-Olympics eligible partnership, he'd be plain stupid. Unless he truly has no desire to compete at the Olympics, in which case he had better make sure his new partner doesn't want to either.

He's a great skater but he's short for pairs and it will be really hard for him to find a suitably sized partner.

[Vagabond]

Or Tran could continue to skate for Japan and find another Japanese partner.

Uh-huh. And Hell could freeze over.

I guess I just don't understand why skaters would enter a mixed-country partnership while knowing that obtaining the proper citizenship to compete at the Olympics would be almost impossible to obtain. Male skating partners are always in high demand; Tran could have found anyone inside of Canada but he with with Takahashi instead. I suppose if one never intends to compete at the Olympics it would be a non-issue, but if you're investing the time and effort to get to that level, why do it with so many prohibitions?

Mervin Tran had absolutely no experience in the pairs discipline when he was invited to try out with Narumi Takahashi. I don't think he even imagined that within five years he would be a Worlds medalist. And, when they first teamed up, they said that they understood that it was extremely unlikely that they would ever go to the Olympics. But with most (or perhaps all) of his training costs paid by the JSF and the chance to compete at NHK, Four Continents, and Worlds, he had an opportunity that he did not want to miss.

[PeterG]

He's a great skater but he's short for pairs and it will be really hard for him to find a suitably sized partner.

Trans is the same height as Robin Szolkowy (both are 5' 9").

[kwanfan1818]

Savchenko is tiny in person. The ISU bios have her at 152cm to Szolkowy's 175cm. Takahashi is listed at 146cm to Tran's 175cm. That's about 2 1/3 inches smaller than Savchenko. She must be smaller than Moskvina.

[Ziggy]

Trans is the same height as Robin Szolkowy (both are 5' 9").

Savchenko is really tiny though. Not easy to find a decent partner that short.