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  1. #21
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    All I know is that I couldn't stand Caro at all prior to the 2011-2012 season (with exceptions of course like her 2007 SP). I can't believe the same skater who made me sick to my stomach at 2008 Worlds LP would have me become a fan during the 2012 Worlds LP.

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by t.mann View Post
    This is the reason why I was not impressed by her Shostakovich performance (except great SS).
    Caro in the program was a typical Caro. There was not a true interpretation for Shostakovich.
    I just thought that Lori found out a Perfect music for Caro.
    I am not sure what is meant to be a true interpretation for Shostokovich (is there such a thing?). I have never seen a program to that music before. To me Kostner put her own stamp on it and created something that was unique and individual. There are some moments in that program that were amazing - really wonderful nuances. Just goes to show how subjective impressions can be.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    To me Kostner put her own stamp on it and created something that was unique and individual.
    That is because Caro herself is a unique and individual skater.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRNlehswZt8
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clz8bRUszP4


    Maybe I am too strict for skaters‘ artistry.
    Last edited by t.mann; 12-16-2012 at 03:45 PM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    All I know is that I couldn't stand Caro at all prior to the 2011-2012 season (with exceptions of course like her 2007 SP). I can't believe the same skater who made me sick to my stomach at 2008 Worlds LP would have me become a fan during the 2012 Worlds LP.
    Major DITTO!! I can now appreciate her great skating. Was 2008 when she won the silver when everyone in the building though Nakano won? That always left a very bad taste in my mouth. At least seeing a watered down Kostner skate with maturity and presentation made me like her better.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by VIETgrlTerifa View Post
    All I know is that I couldn't stand Caro at all prior to the 2011-2012 season (with exceptions of course like her 2007 SP). I can't believe the same skater who made me sick to my stomach at 2008 Worlds LP would have me become a fan during the 2012 Worlds LP.
    Well IMO she didn't really begin to show maturity and refinement until 2010, and it was her consistency in 2011 and 2012 that made her performance stands out so much.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    Major DITTO!! I can now appreciate her great skating. Was 2008 when she won the silver when everyone in the building though Nakano won? That always left a very bad taste in my mouth. At least seeing a watered down Kostner skate with maturity and presentation made me like her better.
    Yes. I can't even re-watch the 2008 Ladies LP. It makes my blood boil and I think a lot of my resentment towards COP stem from that competition.

  7. #27
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    Sasha's 2002 Olys, 2004 Worlds, and 2006 Olympics SP, and her 2006 Olympics LP. All very different, all absolutely wonderful interpretations of the music.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Music is the starting point for any program. I am always disappointed to see skaters skating through the music as if it doesn't matter and has no bearing on their performance. Or the choreography has very little relationship to the music.
    I agree, and I think all skaters should video their programs and watch them with the sound off during their program analysis!

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    ... could you still tell what they are skating to? Or are they using the music at all?

    This clip prompted my to start this thread.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GDdHQmcK7g

    After the other discussion on the judging system, I also think this is also relevant.

    Anyway the reason why I posted was I watched this clip without the sound. Even without the costume, this is a fantastic example of a the skater fully using the music and give a very clear impression about what they are doing to it. And you get a clear picture of the type of music as well.

    Music is the starting point for any program. I am always disappointed to see skaters skating through the music as if it doesn't matter and has no bearing on their performance. Or the choreography has very little relationship to the music.

    ITA, Ita, ita.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by IceDanceFan1 View Post
    I agree, and I think all skaters should video their programs and watch them with the sound off during their program analysis!
    That is not such a bad idea.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    I'm not a fan, at all, of Oksana Baiul, but this program is amazing each time I watch it.
    Funny, I had exactly the opposite reaction. I remembered the program as being incredible, but upon rewatching it now and earlier this week (it was linked in some other thread as well - maybe in the Baiul lawsuit thread), what I see is some beautiful ballet movements but otherwise fairly awful skating. Her stroking is choppy, her crossovers are extremely inefficient, she wide steps into her jumps and spins, and she breaks at the waist. She got great height on her jumps and she certainly had attitude and presence on the ice, but IMO the quality of her basic skating was quite lacking actually.
    "I miss footwork that has any kind of a discernible pattern. The goal of a step sequence should not be for a skater to show the same ice coverage as a Zamboni and take about as much time as an ice resurface. " ~ Zemgirl, reflecting on a pre-IJS straight line sequence

  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    Someone on Youtube played Kwan's 03 program to her 04 and there was NO difference. It was stunning how she did the same jump layout, same arm moves, and that whole arms to sorta FW into the last 3lutz was basically identical to everything she did beginning in 99. I'ts unfortunately not on YT anymore, too bad. It really showed that she wasn't quite an artiste anymore, just doing the same thing over and over and over and over. And who can blame her, it won her all those titles. She was smart, I just suppose her audience and the judges just weren't quite so...
    And had you pointed that out in 2001 or 2003 - you would be classified as whiner by who just does not appreciate her brilliance. Because Kwan is the queen.

    If you cancel sad eyes and hands touching, same could be said about Jamie Sale and David Pelletier's programs.

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