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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    I find interesting that environmentalists can be very big on buying local, but wouldn't couldn't forgoing airplane travel because of its environmental impact. It is easy to be environmentally conscious if it only means doing things that come easily, like shopping at the local farmers market.
    Why more interesting than the "mostly Kosher" or "mostly vegetarian" options that you talked about upthread? Finding pure saints is difficult, and people do what they can/want/are interested in. Is it better to not have incremental change? For every compact that drove up today to the Unitarian Church parking lot to pick up their grass-fed animal delivery today, there were three SUVs. In my book that's better than four SUVs or three SUV owners buying cheap, grain-fed with GMO grain, antibiotic-laden meat.

    Do you know for certain that the net affects of planes are greater than the transport of food? One of my old housemates told me he had bumped into a friend who is an environmental engineer, and when he apologized to the friend for planning a plane trip, the friend told him that air travel was a drop in the bucket compared to cars, and the best thing he could do for the environment would be to get rid of his car and use public transportation.

    One issue with eating local is that huge water and energy resources can be consumed to create and grow food that isn't indigenous to a climate or soil or out of season.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  2. #102

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Why more interesting than the "mostly Kosher" or "mostly vegetarian" options that you talked about upthread? Finding pure saints is difficult, and people do what they can/want/are interested in.
    I just find some environmentalists to be extremely hypocritical.

    Is it better to not have incremental change?
    Better than no change. With respect to the environment, I fear it may be too little change, and too late.

  3. #103
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    When my pescatarian friend did a half-year contract in Romania, he kept trying to find out if there was vegetarian food in restaurants. He kept getting blank looks. Finally, a co-worker and friend told him the word for food you eat at Lent -- i.e., no meat -- and it worked like a charm.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  4. #104

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    A Buddhist co-worker of mine learned a couple of Danish words for some running office jokes - one of the was 'kartoffel' which means potato.

    Later he went to travel the world and told me it saved him in Germany - vegetarians are not that common either, but side potato is te same in Danish and German, in small towns he could order potatoes .

  5. #105
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    My experience of eating in Germany reminded me of this scene from "My Big Fat Greek Wedding:"

    Toula: Ian is a vegetarian. He doesn’t eat meat.
    Aunt Voula: He don’t eat no meat?
    Toula: No, he doesn’t eat meat.
    Aunt Voula: What do you mean, “He don’t eat no meat”? [the entire room suddenly goes silent, in shock] That's OK, I’ll make lamb. Come.
    except substitute "pork" for "lamb."
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  6. #106

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    Don't forget GPF in Quebec City:

    Customer: "Un pizza quatre fromages."
    Waitress: "Oui."

    [60 minutes later]

    Waitress: "Voila. Un pizza quatre fromages." (four cheese pizza)
    Customer: "Merci."

    [before eating it, notices there is pepperoni on the pizza.]

    Customer: "Excuse moi, je voulais un pizza quatre fromages."
    Waitress: "Oui." [with a confused face]

  7. #107
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    How could I forget?
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  8. #108
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    That kind of Vegan. I thought this thread was about this kind of Vegan.

  9. #109
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    My friend just gave me a late Hannukah and early Christmas present:

    Mr. Bacon vs. Monsieur Tofu

    Mr. Bacon stands 6" tall and fights for everything salty, greasy and meaty. Monsieur Tofu is 3" tall and represents all things made of coagulated soy milk.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

  10. #110

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    My beef with the eat local crowd, is that if everyone on the planet only ate locally produced organic food, there wouldn't (on fact, couldn't) be enough food and people would starve. People are able to do it now because so many people don't. There is a really good reason we have moved away from subsistence farming. It is kind of like the mom at our school who preaches about the evil of cars and how she would never own one. Funny, she doesn't seem to mind when I drive her child on a field trip, or give her a ride home when it rains.
    A good rant is cathartic. Ranting is what keeps me sane. They always come from a different place. Take the prime minister, for example. Sometimes when I rant about him, I am angry; other times, I am just severely annoyed - it's an important distinction. - Rick Mercer

  11. #111

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    Why is it when it comes to food, we expect people to follow a specific diet 100%? We don't even expect that for people of a specific faith.

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by mag View Post
    My beef with the eat local crowd, is that if everyone on the planet only ate locally produced organic food, there wouldn't (on fact, couldn't) be enough food and people would starve.
    I think I was the first one to mention buying local on this thread, but I have seen a plethora of facts that support your statement.

    Buying local, and eating organic foods for health or environmental reasons is a mostly pointless action. But it is a good action to support one's local economy. And it is important to maintain some genetic diversity and some geographic diversity in our food supply, so that a complete crop failure and/or famine can be avoided.
    ‎"You emerge victorious from the maze you've been travelling in." Oct 21,2012- Best Fortune Cookie Ever!

  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    My friend just gave me a late Hannukah and early Christmas present:

    Mr. Bacon vs. Monsieur Tofu
    I just sent that to my vegan friend.

  14. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjblue View Post
    Buying local, and eating organic foods for health or environmental reasons is a mostly pointless action. But it is a good action to support one's local economy. And it is important to maintain some genetic diversity and some geographic diversity in our food supply, so that a complete crop failure and/or famine can be avoided.
    It is hard to argue that organic isn't better for the environment. OTOH, it's hard to provide solid evidence of the health benefits of eating organic, especially since its such a new trend and therefore too soon to do longitudinal studies on it. I haven't been convinced to buy organic veggies and fruit, though probably would buy more if the local greengrocer sold it.
    Last edited by Japanfan; 12-19-2012 at 07:49 AM.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Japanfan View Post
    It is hard to argue that organic isn't better for the environment.
    Actually there are several arguments that organic isn't better for the environment including the one that it uses more water (which is important in parts of the world where water is scarce).

    As for it being healthier, there really isn't anything about most organic practices that would make me think organic food is automatically healthier. For many fruits and vegetables, there is no difference in pesticide levels between organic versions of the food an non-organic that has been washed well, as an example. Plus growing food organically doesn't make it have more nutrients.

    I mostly use organic products when the non-organic versions have too much added crap. For example, one organic cottage cheese I sometimes buy has only 3 ingredients (basically milk) but the non-organic version has all these thickeners and flavorings and other crap that's designed to make the food look a certain way and last longer. BUT there are organic foods that are full of crap too -- it's just organic crap -- and the yogurt I buy only has two ingredients (milk and active cultures) but it's not organic. So organic is no guarantee of anything IME.
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  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjblue View Post
    I think I was the first one to mention buying local on this thread, but I have seen a plethora of facts that support your statement.

    Buying local, and eating organic foods for health or environmental reasons is a mostly pointless action. But it is a good action to support one's local economy. And it is important to maintain some genetic diversity and some geographic diversity in our food supply, so that a complete crop failure and/or famine can be avoided.
    This has been my thinking on the buy local issue. We live in a globalized economy which is in many ways a good thing but it will be strongest if regions sustain their own economies and maintain the ability to provide necessities for themselves.
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  17. #117
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    Organic food is prohibited from having NGO GMO product, and while harmful pesticides might be able to be washed off, the farm workers are still subjected to them.
    Last edited by kwanfan1818; 12-19-2012 at 07:11 PM.
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  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    the farm workers are still subjected to them.
    But that has nothing to do with how healthy the end product is which is what was being debated by rjblue and myself.
    Actual bumper sticker series: Jesus is my co-pilot. Satan is my financial advisor. Budha is my therapist. L. Ron Hubbard owes me $50.

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwanfan1818 View Post
    Organic food is prohibited from having NGO GMO product, and while harmful pesticides might be able to be washed off, the farm workers are still subjected to them.
    The main reason for the development of GMO products is to be able to genetically induce traits that enable a variety to resist pests, and thus use much less pesticides to grow the crop. The collapse of the ability to use GMO technology is a major setback to integrated pest management and pesticide reduction.

    And acre for acre organic crops use less pesticides (but not none) and less fertilizer (but not none) and since it takes far more ground to feed the same amount of people, it's an environmental negative. After 30 years of lunchroom discussion, my conclusion is that it makes no sense to have your own vegetable garden or livestock, and then use pesticides on them. And it makes no sense to have a strictly organic commercial farm- so many of their regulations are a bit irrational.
    ‎"You emerge victorious from the maze you've been travelling in." Oct 21,2012- Best Fortune Cookie Ever!

  20. #120
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    Perhaps if we didn't waste so much food, we wouldn't need to grow as much.
    "The team doesn't get automatic capacity because management is mad" -- Greg Smith, agile guy

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