Post the Grand Prix Series, does Patrick Chan need a primary technical coach?

[kwanfan1818]

Why would Chan move to Canada when his coaches, Johnson and Shipstead, are in Colorado Springs? He didn't default to them because Krall fired him and it would have benn disruptive to move: Krall fired him because he chose someone else to lead his coaching team.

[aftershocks]

... Really? I must have missed that because I only remember Chan being constantly bashed by some whether he made mistakes and won or skated lights out and won. ...

Really? Maybe you missed the widespread praise then because a) your antennae is only on the lookout for criticism; and b) because it's been so long since PChid has skated lights out.

There were definitely occasions when fans of all stripes were bending over backwards to praise Patrick (chiefly his amazing Canadian Nationals skates, and Worlds 2011).

[VarBar]

(and anyway, as much as I adore Hanyu and I think he has huge charisma anda clear ability to project, he just doesn't have the level of interpretation of the other two)

I don’t think Takahashi’s program, interpretation and transitions were better than Hanyu’s at GPF FS.

Chan had the best speed and the best music, but I don’t think his interpretation improved and it’s not better than everyone else. He deserved highest PCS for his SS, TR and CH, but his PE and IN marks shouldn’t be that high imo.

Which just shows how subjective interpretation is. lol

a) He discussed at Skate Canada his lack of mental preparation - he said that he and Johnson didn't talk about it until moments before he stepped out on the ice.

b) He's popped several jumps this season, which is a mistake he doesn't often make. He's also been called on UR'ing - something he doesn't doo often either. He's lost combo points in every competition this season.

I dunno - there's something about the mistakes he's making this season that do have me worried.

Chan fell 8 times at the GP + GPF of 2010, six times in 2011 and only two times in 2012, which is pretty reasonable considering that other skaters fell more often than him. But yeah, popping can be more costly than falling.

I have to wonder what I would be feeling like if I were Patrick and most of the people around me disapproved of my choices and decisions, depressed, frustrated, insecure, all of these?

And thanks for your response, kittysk8ts! I agree that Patrick raised the bar in men's skating with his SS and his mastery of quads. I give him lots of credit for that. The times Patrick skated lights out, he certainly deserved huge scores. I think the judges simply went a bit overboard the times Patrick didn't skate well, which wasn't helpful for Patrick either on those occasions.

When Patrick skates lights out, he certainly deserves huge scores such as 187 points at 2011 Worlds? But when he makes a couple of mistakes (not on the big jumps though) and scores 176, he is certainly overscored although he loses 11 points. And when he skates poorly and scores 156 points, he is overmarked again although he loses 20 more points. lol

Really? Maybe you missed the widespread praise then because a) your antennae is only on the lookout for criticism

That must be it.

[spikydurian]

Maybe you missed the widespread praise then because a) your antennae is only on the lookout for criticism

And someone else's hobby is to post half a page of comments...

I have to wonder what I would be feeling like if I were Patrick and most of the people around me disapproved of my choices and decisions, depressed, frustrated, insecure, all of these?

I WOULD wiggle my middle finger.

Why would Chan move to Canada when his coaches, Johnson and Shipstead, are in Colorado Springs? He didn't default to them because Krall fired him and it would have benn disruptive to move: Krall fired him because he chose someone else to lead his coaching team

I thought he originally moved to CS from Laws because of Krall.

[naan]

Which just shows how subjective interpretation is. lol
I have to wonder what I would be feeling like if I were Patrick and most of the people around me disapproved of my choices and decisions, depressed, frustrated, insecure, all of these?

[professordeb]

I am thinking that perhaps he is "struggling" a bit more than usual because not only is he concentrating more on his artistry BUT he's also doing two new programs. That's something new for him along with the other changes in his life so I'm cutting him slack. I'm also thinking things will work out fine. Guess I don't need to take my chill pill yet

[kwanfan1818]

I thought he originally moved to CS from Laws because of Krall.

Yes and no. He was training in both places, with Krall as a consultant, until he decided he preferred the CS environment, with lots of other skaters his own age around.

However, why would he move to Canada, when he's made his choice of a primary coach, and she's in CS?

[bardtoob]

I have to wonder what I would be feeling like if I were Patrick and most of the people around me disapproved of my choices and decisions, depressed, frustrated, insecure, all of these?

. . . You would feel like most adolescent males at some point in the lives.

[os168]

Seriously, it might help Patrick if his fans would lay-off a bit and allow him to chart his own course, make his own mistakes, and decide on what additional adjustments he wants to make after this season. Just because Patrick was not on the top of the podium at GPF doesn't mean he's completely out of favor with the judges. I think it's more that the judges' marks for Patrick have come a bit down to earth when he makes errors, plus there are other competitors who are also talented, who are putting in the work, and who are hungry to win.

I agree with this. To be honest, it is good he is going through this phase before Sochi. It is a necessary growing pain as he become more self aware as a performer as he grew more artistically sensitive evolving from a technician to fully realize his artistry. People don't understand once you a become more artistically aware and emotional available, as a performer, it is natural to feel ever more vulnerable than ever before. How can you not be, if you are trying to skate with your heart and shows you cares beyond scoring. He is just going through that early stage of growing pain and will deal it in his own time I am sure of it. Regardless of his ranking this season against the ascension of Japanese men particularly Hanyu, I do think Patrick is making steady positive progress into a well rounded skater - one of the best ever and I am optimistic about worlds. He has better programs than the Japanese guys, he just need to get his act together.

[Judge Dred]

I just feel like Patrick lacks the structure, coaching-wise, he seemed to have in the past. Krall is an excellent coach, and I'm sorry she's no longer Patrick's.

His form has been erratic this season. Time to bring back Krall

[spikydurian]

His form has been erratic this season. Time to bring back Krall

Krall fired him so I don't think they will work together again. I am sure there are many other technical coaches in CS or other places if Patrick think he needs to get one for the next season. Let's wait till Canadian Nationals to check his form.
I would love it if going into 2013-2014 season, Patrick uses Lori for his SP, David for his LP (I think he will keep La Boheme as this program is still developing) and Buttle for his Ex.

[trevor]

Technocal miscues happended at the Nice World Competition, and not before.
Why? We can trace back to his reported state of mind, that he wanted to quite skating, altogether, just before the Nice World!
He did not lose a single competition for the whole 2011/2012 season, meaning he is tops, and reputed to have started a dynasty of his own!
Why? As we all know, personal relationship/habit had changed dramatically! He had found love, with another human being! He threatened to quite because of his objection to strict closed training period before Nice, like a kid's sudden urge to have something! He was satisfied with his demand, and the consequences showed at the Nice Competition, only, and not before! Reason for that, is too obvious to point out and explain.

To all respects to Patrick as a excellent athelete, his technique and smooth edges are wonders to watch, but deep down, he is still a 21 year old, and have not experienced anything, being supported financially, and spiritually by his coaches/family/mom/dad.......

[euterpe]

Patrick turned 22 on New Years Eve.

[bardtoob]

I hope he had a lot of age appropriate fun. 22 is a good age to have fun.

[apatinar]

I don't know.. not a skater. But as a fan, I will feel more comfortable and assured if he gets at least a p/t technical coach, not necessarily primary coach. Does he has one now?

For more fun, here's 14yo Patrick at 2005 Jr Nationals FS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzDOZx9WcV0

Nice to see the video.. Vintage Chan - slip sliding his way to another title!

[arakwafan2006]

I think that most of you have not been to see skaters train live. In a lot of cases, the skaters hit the elements over and over again like it's nothing. In most cases its not an issue of technical ability but putting it together with the music, doing the moves the way the choreographer envisioned it and trying to perform for the crowd that can really cause a skater to fail. Of the champions I have seen train, i learned that they are in most cases better than what we see however there are a couple (one in mind specifically) who might benefit from having a "technical" coach. Also, I think that those terms are more appealing to the general public than actually relevant. A lot of people dont think of Tatiana Tarasova as a technical coach but if you ask skaters, they will tell you that she's as good as the next.

Off soap box

[bek]

I think that most of you have not been to see skaters train live. In a lot of cases, the skaters hit the elements over and over again like it's nothing. In most cases its not an issue of technical ability but putting it together with the music, doing the moves the way the choreographer envisioned it and trying to perform for the crowd that can really cause a skater to fail. Of the champions I have seen train, i learned that they are in most cases better than what we see however there are a couple (one in mind specifically) who might benefit from having a "technical" coach. Also, I think that those terms are more appealing to the general public than actually relevant. A lot of people dont think of Tatiana Tarasova as a technical coach but if you ask skaters, they will tell you that she's as good as the next.

Off soap box

I'm not sure how you compare Tarasova to Kathy Johnson. Tarasova may not have Mishin's reputation of being a great jump teacher. But she is a former skater, and clearly knows a thing or two about the art of skating. Her father too was a legendary hockey coach, and considering how successful Tarasova's students were, it looks like Tarasova has that too.

Patrick might as well be coachless. Patrick would have been much better of with Tarasova. (although I'm not sure program construction wise) because Tarasova would actually probably recognize quite a lot of things, he's doing wrong. And also given that she has experience with what it takes to well win championships, he might actually feel inclined to listen to her training advice...Seems to me part of this is Patrick wanting to do things Patrick's way...

(Asada would have been fine if she was with Tatiana full time... I suspect. Yagudin, Ilia etc certainly didn't regress under her)

What is the point of having a coach, if said coaches has no skating experience?

[Iceman]

OT Tarasova Skates:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDeDqBWk0LY

[kittysk8ts]

OT Tarasova Skates:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDeDqBWk0LY

Oh my gosh! I had never seen this. Thnx so much for posting this

[kittysk8ts]

[QUOTE=VarBar;3775116]

When Patrick skates lights out, he certainly deserves huge scores such as 187 points at 2011 Worlds? But when he makes a couple of mistakes (not on the big jumps though) and scores 176, he is certainly overscored although he loses 11 points. And when he skates poorly and scores 156 points, he is overmarked again although he loses 20 more points. lol

VarBar, yes, exactly, he has always been penalized for his errors internationally. The fact that he still wins annoys some people but that doesn't change the fact that the appropriate deductions have in fact been made. IMO, of course