Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 32
  1. #1

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    48
    Posts
    17,931
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    33055

    If you turned the music off .....

    ... could you still tell what they are skating to? Or are they using the music at all?

    This clip prompted my to start this thread.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GDdHQmcK7g

    After the other discussion on the judging system, I also think this is also relevant.

    Anyway the reason why I posted was I watched this clip without the sound. Even without the costume, this is a fantastic example of a the skater fully using the music and give a very clear impression about what they are doing to it. And you get a clear picture of the type of music as well.

    Music is the starting point for any program. I am always disappointed to see skaters skating through the music as if it doesn't matter and has no bearing on their performance. Or the choreography has very little relationship to the music.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  2. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    82
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    ^ Love it! One of my all time favorite programs! It's my figure skating first love Feel nostalgic about the 90s...

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,333
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    781
    yes, I think there are to many skaters skating through the music and not to the music. And that should the judges take in account in the interpretation.
    Why can't they do it?
    You have a god point

  4. #4
    Banned Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    In my bedroom flipping the light on/off
    Posts
    916
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Someone on Youtube played Kwan's 03 program to her 04 and there was NO difference. It was stunning how she did the same jump layout, same arm moves, and that whole arms to sorta FW into the last 3lutz was basically identical to everything she did beginning in 99. I'ts unfortunately not on YT anymore, too bad. It really showed that she wasn't quite an artiste anymore, just doing the same thing over and over and over and over. And who can blame her, it won her all those titles. She was smart, I just suppose her audience and the judges just weren't quite so...

  5. #5
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    11,168
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest View Post
    Someone on Youtube played Kwan's 03 program to her 04 and there was NO difference. It was stunning how she did the same jump layout, same arm moves, and that whole arms to sorta FW into the last 3lutz was basically identical to everything she did beginning in 99. I'ts unfortunately not on YT anymore, too bad. It really showed that she wasn't quite an artiste anymore, just doing the same thing over and over and over and over. And who can blame her, it won her all those titles. She was smart, I just suppose her audience and the judges just weren't quite so...
    Well she was quite badly injured at the time so I suppose her focus was different then. She skated much better to the music in short programs when there were less jumps - Feeling Begins and Spartacus etc.

  6. #6
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Posts
    12,332
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    I'm not a fan, at all, of Oksana Baiul, but this program is amazing each time I watch it.
    The problem without the sound is that preparations to jumps seem longer.
    And here, you really don't understand why she looks so happy after her bad 3Lz combo. LOL

  7. #7
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    1,849
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    And here, you really don't understand why she looks so happy after her bad 3Lz combo. LOL
    I actually admire this. Many Russian (Federation) skaters do an awesome job of selling their programs regardless of how the technical goes. If you pick up a Baiul skate 2/3rds of way through you have no clue if they have botched or nailed everything. That's how it should be. Sell...sell...sell!

    I used to hate that from a lot of our Canadian entries. Sandhu and the Wirtzes come quickly to mind...where they skate the program with beeatch face if they miss the first element.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,950
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    91441
    Quote Originally Posted by briancoogaert View Post
    I'm not a fan, at all, of Oksana Baiul, but this program is amazing each time I watch it.
    The problem without the sound is that preparations to jumps seem longer.
    And here, you really don't understand why she looks so happy after her bad 3Lz combo. LOL
    Oksana was a performer and she truly loved being on the ice, I think. In one of her early pro competitions, she fell twice during her routine, but she never gave up on the performance. I think it's a great quality. I saw Ashley Wagner and Akiko do something similar at the recent GPF, after their falls. From the way they both smiled at the end, you would have thought they nailed everything. I respected that.

  9. #9
    aka IceSkate98
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Somewhere in the Twilight Zone
    Posts
    6,984
    vCash
    12630
    Rep Power
    90047
    I always loved that particular program of Oksana's. Her feelings, emotions made that program breathtaking.

    Another program that was simply breathtaking. All the emotions, feelings for the music were there. It was exactly like the music was made especially for Michelle:

    Lyra Angelica
    Angie
    “I have not failed. I’ve just found 10,000 ways that won’t work.” ~ Thomas A. Edison

  10. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    4,332
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    The costume and the choreo and the movements do give a sense of the music. Oksana was determined, and she definitely sold the program, so much so that the flaws were generally overlooked.

    Oksana always had lovely lines, beautiful extension and gorgeous presentation skills. She was very precocious artistically, and she always looked beautiful in the air on her jumps, but the landings (especially on combo jumps) were often flawed (she had a tendency for two-footing). I suppose she never fully developed a flawless jump technique. She likely needed more time to improve that aspect of her skating, but the judges felt it was important to prematurely reward her with the Olympic gold medal in 1994. But I guess who knows whether she would have remained hungry enough to stick with the sport for another four years had she won silver in 1994.

  11. #11

    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Partying with Oda
    Posts
    4,222
    vCash
    1799
    Rep Power
    33132
    I too loved Oksana's SP. I wonder how effective it would be if she had to adhere to all the COP rules?
    "I hit him with my shoes... if he had given me the medal like I told him to, I wouldn't have had to hit him!" -- 8-year-old Rhoda Penmark in "The Bad Seed"

  12. #12

    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    in Yuna bubble everafter
    Posts
    4,891
    vCash
    465
    Rep Power
    42231
    Quote Originally Posted by Simone411 View Post
    I always loved that particular program of Oksana's. Her feelings, emotions made that program breathtaking.

    Another program that was simply breathtaking. All the emotions, feelings for the music were there. It was exactly like the music was made especially for Michelle:

    Lyra Angelica
    That's why skaters don't dare to use this music after Michelle. Wow, that is magical, and will be for ages

  13. #13

    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,950
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    91441
    I love this SP by Oksana. She skated so well to the music, her arm positions were gorgeous, and the slight two foot on the 3Lutz did not spoil it for me. This is one of my favorite SPs by any singles skater.

  14. #14
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    256
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Though I think Caro is a very brilliant skater, her programs look similar almost always. The reason I think her artistry(or musicality) is overrated.
    Last edited by t.mann; 12-15-2012 at 11:22 AM.

  15. #15

    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I Want to Go to There
    Posts
    9,802
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    36444
    Even Kwan fans admit that the layout of Aranjuez and Tosca were similar. I'd blame it on Kwan headed toward a downhill trajectory, increasingly bothersome hip, fighting for jump consistency, and Nikolai Morosov's lack of creativity. Plus, at that time, I felt every skater in the ladies division were repeating elements and became predictable with their layout.

    However, the musical interpretations were different and required different moods for Kwan to convey. Admittedly, those two aren't my favorite routines from her, but Kwan did have some great performances with them unlike Bolero. Haters gonna hate, but there's a reason why the judges and audience "fell" for both routines.

    BTW, nice way to insult people's intelligences Alex Forrest with this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Forrest
    She was smart, I just suppose her audience and the judges just weren't quite so...

  16. #16
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    4,332
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by l'etoile View Post
    That's why skaters don't dare to use this music after Michelle. Wow, that is magical, and will be for ages
    At least NOT yet, anyway (HOPEFULLY NEVER). Using MK music (or music that MK used) etc., has been a trend in recent years.

  17. #17

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    48
    Posts
    17,931
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    33055
    Quote Originally Posted by t.mann View Post
    Though I think Caro is a very brilliant skater, her programs look similar almost always. The reason I think her artistry(or musicality) is overrated.
    Here are two SPs of Kostners from different years. I would suggest take into account that are both SPs so the elements do take up a lot of the program content and ignore any errors. However watch them without the music on and then look at the types of expression that she is conveying for both programs. Is there a difference between the two? And could you also tell if she actually skating to a piece of music by the moves she is putting in? I have my opinions but I would be interested in reading others before I comment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs3u8Fe1Vqk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7e8jn_QEZA
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  18. #18

    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Still cheering for Mirai and Jeremy
    Age
    30
    Posts
    3,876
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    1271
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Here are two SPs of Kostners from different years. I would suggest take into account that are both SPs so the elements do take up a lot of the program content and ignore any errors. However watch them without the music on and then look at the types of expression that she is conveying for both programs. Is there a difference between the two? And could you also tell if she actually skating to a piece of music by the moves she is putting in? I have my opinions but I would be interested in reading others before I comment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs3u8Fe1Vqk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7e8jn_QEZA
    To my untrained eyes, those two programs look different. She places the elements in different places. Also, in the earlier program at 2009 Euros, she telegraphs her combo and the aborted jump. In the program from last year's world, she doesn't telegraph her jumps and they seem to flow into the program. For her 2009 program, I get the sense from the costume and the music selection that she was suppose to be skating to a Spanish themed but I couldn't really tell from her movements. Since last year's SP was to Shostakovich, I think it would be hard to get a sense that she was skating to it just from her movement. However, her movements do have a edginess that matches the music.
    "If people are looking for guarantees, they should buy appliances at Sears and stay away from human relationships."~Prancer

  19. #19

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Age
    48
    Posts
    17,931
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    33055
    Quote Originally Posted by modern_muslimah View Post
    To my untrained eyes, those two programs look different. She places the elements in different places. Also, in the earlier program at 2009 Euros, she telegraphs her combo and the aborted jump. In the program from last year's world, she doesn't telegraph her jumps and they seem to flow into the program. For her 2009 program, I get the sense from the costume and the music selection that she was suppose to be skating to a Spanish themed but I couldn't really tell from her movements. Since last year's SP was to Shostakovich, I think it would be hard to get a sense that she was skating to it just from her movement. However, her movements do have a edginess that matches the music.
    I agree with you. Also in the 2009 program the spiral sequence takes up a lot of the program as well and makes it really difficult to do anything really special that defines the program or enhances the type of music.
    When you are up to your arse in alligators it is difficult to remember you were only meant to be draining the swamp.

  20. #20
    Registered User
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    256
    vCash
    500
    Rep Power
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Willy View Post
    Here are two SPs of Kostners from different years. I would suggest take into account that are both SPs so the elements do take up a lot of the program content and ignore any errors. However watch them without the music on and then look at the types of expression that she is conveying for both programs. Is there a difference between the two? And could you also tell if she actually skating to a piece of music by the moves she is putting in? I have my opinions but I would be interested in reading others before I comment.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bs3u8Fe1Vqk

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7e8jn_QEZA
    This is the reason why I was not impressed by her Shostakovich performance (except great SS).
    Caro in the program was a typical Caro. There was not a true interpretation for Shostakovich.
    I just thought that Lori found out a Perfect music for Caro.
    Last edited by t.mann; 12-16-2012 at 05:37 AM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •